My humble take on new SMN

[aveyond-dreams]

"Old smn mains" however are not unified in any way shape or form. There were those who tolerated the state of affairs all throughout Shadowbringers who are thrilled with the rework and have never been happier, and there is a tiny but vocal minority of people who won't stop complaining that their complex poison mage got taken away. The only way to satisfy the latter is to give them Necromancer or something. Twisting Summoner to suit their desires brought the job to the point where the devs threw up their hands in surrender and ultimately led to the rework.

Stocking ruin ivs was not that great of a mechanic, and there is no way that I would ever support bringing back dots to babysit. One thing is a one-off ability like Gunbreaker's dot that you press once its available, which could easily fit for a Leviathan or Ramuh inspired attack, but another thing is the dot babysitting from old Summoner. That whole concept can stay in the trash or it can be tacked on to Necromancer in 2 years, but it certainly does not need to resurface in Summoner.

As a general point, anyone who brings up "bbbut Rydia casted Bio!" already loses legitimacy because why on earth would a *Summoner* prefer to use poison magic instead of primal-themed abilities? You already have Bahamut. I'm now a Summoner main after having abandoned the mess of a class we got in Shadowbringers and I say what we need are more primals, not Bio. Moving some more higher level abilities down to lower levels would be great for the class, and some primal-themed attacks to weave in between our currently existing spells would be the most thematically appropriate way to go about things.

[Gallus]

I have already played and enjoyed more the new Endwalker SMN than all the other SMN versions of the other expansions combined.
Garuda-Egi taking half a minute to cast contagion or having to cast sustain on your pet because it kept dying to random stuff?

How I miss those times.

Nope.

[CKNovel]

"Old smn mains" however are not unified in any way shape or form. There were those who tolerated the state of affairs all throughout Shadowbringers who are thrilled with the rework and have never been happier, and there is a tiny but vocal minority of people who won't stop complaining that their complex poison mage got taken away. The only way to satisfy the latter is to give them Necromancer or something. Twisting Summoner to suit their desires brought the job to the point where the devs threw up their hands in surrender and ultimately led to the rework.

Not like all SMN mains I know are complaining about the braindead aspect of the job.
Not like there was a meme about the SMN rotation simplified as playing with legos.

You can defend as hard as you can and shell yourself, there are people who are unhappy with the state of the job.
Do you have to agree? No. But you have to accept their opinion as they are just that, opinions.

One poor dot won't bring ShB summoner back, you are overexagerating the situation. Plus, the problem was never the dot but the terrible pet AI.
And we also discussed the bio part, IV SMN is IV SMN, XIV SMN is XIV SMN. No one cries that MCH isn't using a melee job using a spear.

People are unhappy and it's quite impolite of you to try to silence their voices by repeating "But it's a minority!!!"

[OtakuSempai]

Not like all SMN mains I know are complaining about the braindead aspect of the job.
Not like there was a meme about the SMN rotation simplified as playing with legos.

You can defend as hard as you can and shell yourself, there are people who are unhappy with the state of the job.
Do you have to agree? No. But you have to accept their opinion as they are just that, opinions.

One poor dot won't bring ShB summoner back, you are overexagerating the situation. Plus, the problem was never the dot but the terrible pet AI.
And we also discussed the bio part, IV SMN is IV SMN, XIV SMN is XIV SMN. No one cries that MCH isn't using a melee job using a spear.

People are unhappy and it's quite impolite of you to try to silence their voices by repeating "But it's a minority!!!"

Exactly, so sick of people like this. Overly dismissive, rude apologists who think they can handwave away their fellow player's opinions.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Snip

I'm a "new" SMN main and I think the job is the most boring thing in all existence until level 86. I have made this alt a week before early access and have played and leveled SMN from 1 to 67 so far and have done ARR, HW and 80% of StB and so far it has been the exact same rotation since level 10. Press Aethercharge/Trance/Summon Bahamut, spam Ruin/Ruin 2/Ruin 3/Astral Impulse, blow all your cooldowns during the first 3 Ruins/Astral Impulses. Summon Garuda/Titan/Ifrit. Spam 4 fast instant Ruins, 4 regular instant Ruins and then 2 slow Ruins. All until level 86 when you finally get the dash, slipstream and mountain buster ogcd weave and even then that barely changes what you do. I had to level RDM concurrently to get away from the absolute monotony of Ruin spamming.

[Palladiamors]

"Old smn mains" however are not unified in any way shape or form. There were those who tolerated the state of affairs all throughout Shadowbringers who are thrilled with the rework and have never been happier, and there is a tiny but vocal minority of people who won't stop complaining that their complex poison mage got taken away. The only way to satisfy the latter is to give them Necromancer or something. Twisting Summoner to suit their desires brought the job to the point where the devs threw up their hands in surrender and ultimately led to the rework.

Stocking ruin ivs was not that great of a mechanic, and there is no way that I would ever support bringing back dots to babysit. One thing is a one-off ability like Gunbreaker's dot that you press once its available, which could easily fit for a Leviathan or Ramuh inspired attack, but another thing is the dot babysitting from old Summoner. That whole concept can stay in the trash or it can be tacked on to Necromancer in 2 years, but it certainly does not need to resurface in Summoner.

As a general point, anyone who brings up "bbbut Rydia casted Bio!" already loses legitimacy because why on earth would a *Summoner* prefer to use poison magic instead of primal-themed abilities? You already have Bahamut. I'm now a Summoner main after having abandoned the mess of a class we got in Shadowbringers and I say what we need are more primals, not Bio. Moving some more higher level abilities down to lower levels would be great for the class, and some primal-themed attacks to weave in between our currently existing spells would be the most thematically appropriate way to go about things.

Huh, funny, seems to me like you've got that backward. I see a vocal minority, most of whom never played summoner before and espouse as such, praising it, while most old summoners hate it and have stopped playing it. With any luck they'll ignore people like you and fix this train wreck.