Will there ever be true raiding content in FF14?

[Jirah]

Can't make them fun for you. I find them to be a blast.

Here’s a question that’ll be interesting to hear, what makes them fun comparably next to ARR and beyond?

[DerpyWhiskers]

The above points are fair and valid. The content is as hard or easy as you want it to be really *shrug*. It doesn't need to be WoW 2.0 or ESO's style of raid, the content stands on its own quite well. There's nothing in the world stopping anyone from forming a static grp and progressing the content on harder difficulties.

It's also sometimes important to remember, esp with stupid covid being a thing, a wider audience is gaming now. Some might be older, maybe less skilled, or maybe even have assorted handicaps. There's no sense forcibly making all the content more difficult, thus inaccessible to some, just to appease some hardcores that could just queue up for a harder setting if they want.

[Miles064]

The above points are fair and valid. The content is as hard or easy as you want it to be really *shrug*. It doesn't need to be WoW 2.0 or ESO's style of raid, the content stands on its own quite well. There's nothing in the world stopping anyone from forming a static grp and progressing the content on harder difficulties.

It's also sometimes important to remember, esp with stupid covid being a thing, a wider audience is gaming now. Some might be older, maybe less skilled, or maybe even have assorted handicaps. There's no sense forcibly making all the content more difficult, thus inaccessible to some, just to appease some hardcores that could just queue up for a harder setting if they want.

That is why games like wow have 4 difficulties right? I like smaller scale content so dungeons are perfect. I also like a bit of challenge to push myself at the same time. FF has nothing for this. "Expert" is a rush down and leveling dungeons are leveling dungeons, I dont expect them to kick my teeth in. They don't even need to make new dungeons either. Scale up the leveling and max lvl ones, stick them in a separate queue, and give out some tomestones or something for it. Put some sort of test or something to see if you can handle it first and give some glams/mounts/titles and I'd be set.

[VelKallor]

Put some sort of test or something

Ohhh...you want players to "sit a test" before doing content? Like the UTTERLY failed "Proving Grounds" in WOD? The one that helped lose them HALF their playerbase in six months? The one that had players discriminated against and unable to do Heroic dungeons because they 'failed their test"?

I remember that. It was a sick joke...and as had been pointed out REPEATEDLY, it didnt "simulate" a real dungeon because

1 The NPCs were a joke , I did the tank one and the NPC was saying "get these adds off me"..only there werent any, Id killed them all.

2. If you failed it sent you back to the very beginning, it was supposed to 'simulate a real dungeon":..tell me, how many dungeons in WOW or FF 14 when you wipe on one boss, do you have to go back and kill them all again to get to the one you wiped on?

None.

3. It was one of Blizzards gates to content, one of MANY failures over the years, and also was an unannounced gate to do Legendary items.

I remember it well, I remember it alienated so many they quit and never returned.

[Miles064]

Ohhh...you want players to "sit a test" before doing content? Like the UTTERLY failed "Proving Grounds" in WOD? The one that helped lose them HALF their playerbase in six months? The one that had players discriminated against and unable to do Heroic dungeons because they 'failed their test"?

I remember that. It was a sick joke...and as had been pointed out REPEATEDLY, it didnt "simulate" a real dungeon because

1 The NPCs were a joke , I did the tank one and the NPC was saying "get these adds off me"..only there werent any, Id killed them all.

2. If you failed it sent you back to the very beginning, it was supposed to 'simulate a real dungeon":..tell me, how many dungeons in WOW or FF 14 when you wipe on one boss, do you have to go back and kill them all again to get to the one you wiped on?

None.

3. It was one of Blizzards gates to content, one of MANY failures over the years, and also was an unannounced gate to do Legendary items.

I remember it well, I remember it alienated so many they quit and never returned.

That was for heroics though which was just normal content which this would not be. Also WoD didnt lose players because of proving grounds, it lost them because WoD just wasn't very fun. The npcs are a joke in this game too. How many people died or watch trusts died from doing something stupid? It sent you back to the beginning because it was a test for dungeons not a real dungeon but I would have no issues with a checkpoint system so you can go back to trying the part you failed at right away. If anything it was one of the many idea that Blizz needed to just work on and they just didn't. SE at least tries to fix things that don't go well the first go around so I think they could take a crack at it.

[VelKallor]

Also WoD didnt lose players because of proving grounds,

i was THERE.

PG was set up in such a way that even GUILD GROUPS that wanted to take who they wanted regardless, couldnt. It WAS a huge problem, used old, outdated, unbalanced content based on skills and spells we no longer had, was badly overtuned. Only in WOW were players required to 'sit a mandatory exam" to be allowed to do content.

WOD was a failure on every level. Blizzard was warned.

And didnt listen.

[Shurrikhan]

Variety in fights/dungeon design has nothing to do with bringing elitism nor changing gear treadmill though? I swear to god, the "traumatized" players that come from WoW and disregard any kind of feedback for ffxiv and treats it as some kind of oasis where no new ideas are needed are worse than our regular white knights.

I heard Yoshida had to decline any improvements to XIV's anti-aliasing because decent AA might remind them of WoW, which has bad reward loops and obligatory content, thus making their AA bad, too.
Endwalker's would-be Deep Dungeon also had to be scrapped because it used unique skill upgrades based on borrowed powers acquired as one progresses deeper into said dungeon, which reminded them of WoW, which has bad reward loops and obligatory content, thus also making any side-content concepts from WoW bad.
/s

[Miles064]

I heard Yoshida had to decline any improvements to XIV's anti-aliasing because decent AA might remind them of WoW, which has bad reward loops and obligatory content, thus making their AA bad, too.
Endwalker's would-be Deep Dungeon also had to be scrapped because it used unique skill upgrades based on borrowed powers acquired as one progresses deeper into said dungeon, which reminded them of WoW, which has bad reward loops and obligatory content, thus also making any side-content concepts from WoW bad.
/s

I wonder if asking for more raids with voice acting would get people riled up too. Too bad WoW does that so can't have it here.

[Shurrikhan]

i was THERE.

PG was set up in such a way that even GUILD GROUPS that wanted to take who they wanted regardless, couldnt. It WAS a huge problem, used old, outdated, unbalanced content based on skills and spells we no longer had, was badly overtuned. Only in WOW were players required to 'sit a mandatory exam" to be allowed to do content.

WOD was a failure on every level. Blizzard was warned.

And didnt listen.

While premades should have been exempt, agreed, let's not pretend it was remotely difficult to get Silver in PGs, on any spec.

The content was not outdated; it was updated in the same expansion in which it was made a requirement (for Heroic and beyond only).

It was not unbalanced; you could get the highest rank for it in base gear.

It did not use spells players no longer had access to; there were no specifically spell/skill-dependent checks and it was far from difficult so long as one managed their CDs effectively.

Getting Silver was no more significant a gate to players than our "In From the Cold" scenario and took slightly less time.

[Miles064]

While premades should have been exempt, agreed, let's not pretend it was remotely difficult to get Silver in PGs, on any spec.

The content was not outdated; it was created in the same expansion in which it was used.

It was not unbalanced; you could get the highest rank for it in base gear.

It did not use spells players no longer had access to; it was, again, made in that very expansion and was far from difficult so long as one managed their CDs effectively.

Getting Silver was no more significant a gate to players than our "In From the Cold" scenario and took slightly less time.

Oh yeah i glossed over that. I did the proving grounds right away on my army of alts so I never ran into that problem. Getting gold maybe had some issues with some specs but silver? Don't remember needing spells I didnt have either but it has been a bit i guess.