Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

[Elysidelphi]

I've just found a very interesting character analysis on Zenos, for anyone interested I think it's a very well done video, and while I do not necessarily agree with everything said there, there are still many excellent points being made. Really worth your time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YbkMdZttQc (FFXIV Character Analysis: Zenos yae Galvus, the Hollow Villain by Imacuttlefish)

[Gameovers]

Nope :/ ......!

[Bright-Flower]

Zenos is way past the 'moral event horizon' for me to really care. And even if he werne't, I wouldn't want to see him dug up from the grave AGAIN. They had a second chance to make Zenos more interesting post 4.0 and they didn't. I'd say he served his purpose better in EW than he did in SB but that's more about how he was used in the plot than his character changing or being any deeper. The ending he got in EW is as good as you can hope to get for a character like this.

He's also not a character I see redemption being feasible for. Zenos doesn't WANT to change. He does not reconize that he really did anything WRONG and have a desire to repent for what he's done and become better. He has no remorse or guilt for what he did to Doma, to Ala Mhigo, to what he helped Fandaniel unleash upon the world.

Just because he had a sad backstory, does not excuse his actions. It's the same with Yotsuyu for me. She had a sad backstory, sure. But when you introduce her forcing innocent villagers to murder eachother for her own sick amusement, it's way past justified or excusable. Zenos was a monster, one who was more than happy to set the world aflame without any remorse. Even the one 'good' act he does in the end isn't about doing the right thing but about removing a distraction so he can get what he wants.

He's not even the type of character that would want to be redeemed and work towards such a goal without fundamentally changing his character.

[Elysidelphi]

Zenos is way past the 'moral event horizon' for me to really care. And even if he werne't, I wouldn't want to see him dug up from the grave AGAIN. They had a second chance to make Zenos more interesting post 4.0 and they didn't. I'd say he served his purpose better in EW than he did in SB but that's more about how he was used in the plot than his character changing or being any deeper. The ending he got in EW is as good as you can hope to get for a character like this.

He's also not a character I see redemption being feasible for. Zenos doesn't WANT to change. He does not reconize that he really did anything WRONG and have a desire to repent for what he's done and become better. He has no remorse or guilt for what he did to Doma, to Ala Mhigo, to what he helped Fandaniel unleash upon the world.

Just because he had a sad backstory, does not excuse his actions. It's the same with Yotsuyu for me. She had a sad backstory, sure. But when you introduce her forcing innocent villagers to murder eachother for her own sick amusement, it's way past justified or excusable. Zenos was a monster, one who was more than happy to set the world aflame without any remorse. Even the one 'good' act he does in the end isn't about doing the right thing but about removing a distraction so he can get what he wants.

He's not even the type of character that would want to be redeemed and work towards such a goal without fundamentally changing his character.

Fair enough that you don't like him and don't want him back.

Personally, I firmly believe that redemption is possible for anyone. Literally anyone. As long as they want it. And yes, Zenos has not wanted redemption so far, but he can change and come to some conclusions, and then want redemption for himself. It's exactly the same thing with the Ascians, from A Realm Reborn all the way through Shadowbringers, we were made to think that Ascians were pure evil and didn't want or need redemption, didn't have any redeeemable qualities, any deeper motives, any desire to change. That was 6 years of us thinking these things about the Ascians, to the point people were sick and tired of them and were thinking that there was nothing more that could be done with the Ascians. Yet Shadowbringers changed all of that, and Endwalker only emphasised that change even more. The FFXIV dev team are known to play the long game when it comes to certain characters. Maybe one of those characters is Zenos and he still has a long way to go. I certainly hope so.

It's entirely possible that after everything that happened Zenos will realise he cannot win against the WoL no matter what he does, just like he realised he cannot force the WoL to fight him and offered a choice (something Stormblood Zenos would have never done). The words Alisaie said to Zenos might still haunt him and he might realise he really doesn't like his loneliness and he really wants to be friends and close to the WoL, he might start thinking about the WoL's motivations for fighting in general, such as protecting others, he might realise that even he himself would want to protect the WoL (like when he got mad when Fandaniel told him that he might have hurt the WoL a little), and he might start changing, regretting his actions from the past, seeing the wrong of his deeds, wanting more for himself. After all, he's only in his mid/late 20s, he definitely can change in a meaningful way.

Just because he didn't want redemption so far, just because he didn't have regrets so far, doesn't mean he can never ever have these. Just like Ascians didn't have depth to them for 6 years until Shadowbringers happened. Maybe Zenos was supposed to go through all of this, and go through it slowly, to really show us what a monster he is, and then to show us how he will slowly change. Which is why his story wasn't resolved in Stormblood; Stormblood wasn't his story, wasn't focused on him, it was focused on liberating Ala Mhigo and Doma. Stormblood was just a stepping stone for Zenos, his introduction; it would have probably felt rushed if his story had ended for good in Stormblood. I think the writers have more plans for him.

Also, the fact that he changed jobs and became a Reaper of all possible jobs and Yoshi-P telling us to pay close attention to his avatar; also the Reaper questline, as explained by others, where it's extremely hard to actually kill a Reaper, all these feel to me like clues. Like Zenos's story isn't over. And there are still many questions left unanswered about him, which further makes me think that he will be back. And I really, really want that and hope that he will be back. His ending didn't feel satisfying at all. He didn't sound happy/at peace with dying, he sounded sad, regretful. But if you're someone who dislikes/hates Zenos, yeah, for such a person his ending might seem fine. But he really deserved more. And having a character who is a monster evolve and become better and find redemption would be a strong message to send the playerbase.

As for "fundamentally changing his character", that shouldn't be a bad thing. We had a lot of time with him as a monster, he can now grow and change, forge a different path for himself. That wouldn't invalidate his past at all, that would only show that due to his terrible past, he started to learn and grow. It's like telling a real life person "if you lived the first 30 years of your life as a horrible human being, there is no point/way you can change now, so live the next 50 years of your life just as horribly". That's not how it works. People are constantly encouraged to learn and change and grow, no matter their ages, no matter how much time they spent stuck in a certain mentality.

Oh, and on a similar note, I keep seeing some people comparing Zenos to characters like Draco Malfoy or Joffrey Baratheon/Lannister. They seem to forget that both Draco and Joffrey had loving mothers and happy childhoods, without being experimented on, without having a recurring nightmare of the Final Days ever since they could remember. Draco Malfoy's father paid more attention to Draco than Varis ever paid to Zenos. Draco's mother definitely loved and adored him and sought to protect him (by making the Unbreakable Vow with Severus Snape, by lying to Voldemort about Harry being dead, etc.). Cersei Lannister loved and adored her children, she herself said so many times, and even Tyrion, one of the most intelligent characters, knew and saw that Cersei genuinely loved her children; Cersei Lannister is shown crying her heart out when her daughter is sent to Dorne, and she is shown being tender and affectionate to her youngest child, Tommen, she even hugs him, holds him on her lap and caresses him tenderly; for all her faults and everything else bad that can be said about Cersei, we can be 100% certain that Cersei did love her children and did show them love and tenderness. So both Draco Malfoy and Joffrey Baratheon were loved by their parents when they were young children and had happy peaceful childhoods. Comparing them to Zenos is all kinds of wrong. It's basically ignoring facts. Zenos was never loved, he never once knew how it feels to be loved by someone, even just a parent; his father definitely did not love him. Zenos did not have a happy, peaceful childhood. No, that does not excuse him, but it should show people why he is/was the way he is/was.

[Kaliesto]

If he does comeback I'm placing bets he'll be wandering around in the World of Darkness if I'm understanding why Yoshi P. said to pay attention to his voidsent avatar.

[Elysidelphi]

If he does comeback I'm placing bets he'll be wandering around in the World of Darkness if I'm understanding why Yoshi P. said to pay attention to his voidsent avatar.

What do you mean? What's your take on Yoshi-P saying to pay attention to Zenos's voidsent avatar?

[Kaliesto]

What do you mean? What's your take on Yoshi-P saying to pay attention to Zenos's voidsent avatar?

It's only a guess, not enough info is out there but I did find a interesting theory about the Occuria from FFXII, and how they maybe used in FFXIV.

Maybe these Voidsent Reapers are related to the Occuria in some way?


Edit -

Now I think about it they did want to continue Dalmasca in some capacity (I wonder...)

[MilkieTea]

I come back to this thread and see OP has crossed into "Genocidal Maniac is just Scared UwU Bean Child" territory.

[Elysidelphi]

It's only a guess, not enough info is out there but I did find a interesting theory about the Occuria from FFXII, and how they maybe used in FFXIV.

Maybe these Voidsent Reapers are related to the Occuria in some way?


Edit -

Now I think about it they did want to continue Dalmasca in some capacity (I wonder...)

Oh yes, I've read those theories about the Occuria, that would be so interesting if they went down that particular road and could have so many implications.

What do you think the connection with Dalmasca might be going forward?

[Elysidelphi]

I come back to this thread and see OP has crossed into "Genocidal Maniac is just Scared UwU Bean Child" territory.

If that's all you understood from everything I wrote, even the points I kept repeating... good. That's on you.