People advertising they're running Parsers

[Hammerhorn]

In the age of information the transparency a parser can tell you about yourself and the people you choose to play with is 100% needed in the community.

[Xrystofer]

In the age of information the transparency a parser can tell you about yourself and the people you choose to play with is 100% needed in the community.

That is not the issue that is being discussed here, mate. People that advertise the use of parser in PF have a certain intent. Keep it to yourself mate and all is good.

[VelKallor]

In the age of information the transparency a parser can tell you about yourself and the people you choose to play with is 100% needed in the community.

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

[Myrany]

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

It has happened in Sastasha. I have seen it. All I can say is anyone I see abusing anyone else will be reported. If they use Damage meters/parsers to justify the abuse you can bet that will be included in the report.

I used a damage meter for years in WoW and honestly It caused me to stress out constantly and not enjoy the game. For that reason I will never run one again for any reason. If it means I can't do the higher content I really can't be bothered to care anymore.

[Velnora]

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

You see, parsers already exist, and there isn't this boogeyman of people harassing others about their damage. Making them officially legal isn't going to magically cause people to start harassing others, as that would still not be allowed. Also, why should people have to carry said "deadweights"? Why should people be forced to play with others that do not fit their playstyle?

[VelKallor]

You see, parsers already exist, and there isn't this boogeyman of people harassing others about their damage.

If you like, I am more than happy to regale you you on the thousands of encounters I have had where they did just that.

[Velnora]

If you like, I am more than happy to regale you you on the thousands of encounters I have had where they did just that.

The thousands of encounters, in FF14?

[ForteNightshade]

With one caveat, that I think we all agree on.

KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.

I disagree. While I'm far less inclined to say anything in a dungeon, Savage is a whole different beast. If a SAM can't keep up with a Bard or even a WAR, then simply acknowledging their low DPS isn't toxic. Their performance is such a scenario impacts my gameplay because we're potentially seeing mechanics we'd otherwise skip, or allowing less margin for error as now everyone else has to compensate for their lackluster DPS.

If you've ever complained about how parties disband after 2-3 wipes. It's likely someone was parsing and knew they couldn't say anything, so they simply bailed. A silent kick is equally telling.

If you like, I am more than happy to regale you you on the thousands of encounters I have had where they did just that.

Please do. Give us just five examples because "thousands of encounters" isn't just hyperbolic, it's downright absurd. Coincidentally, I could "regale" you with plenty of casual players who are equally or even more toxic despite not having a parser to speak of.

[Yahallo]

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

No matter how toxic the minority is, it is not a reason to permanently remove the ability for parsers to exist. To even start helping someone, you have to first identify the problem and parsers are needed for that. The vast majority keep the discussion off the game and on discord for a reason. What is done off game, even if it is related to the game, should not be punished in game. By joining a static, you are agreeing to their policies regarding these things. The harsh truth is that if you don't a group's policies you should leave that group. While there will never be an official parser, there is no reason to try to completely remove the ability for the current parsers to exist considering their necessity for raiding.

Furthermore, it is not just the raiders being toxic. Plenty of casual players are toxic as well. Toxicity isn't exclusive to raiders.

[Rilifane]

There will be no official parser, i dont know how many times this needs to be stated.

As for attitude, i tend to find that anyone who sneeringly refers to others as "deadweights" is ample proof of why parsers should be completely banned. i dont mean allow them for personal use, i mean BANNED. Removed. Forbidden.

I dont see any reason why this kind of attitude, this kind of hostile, abusive conduct towards others should be condoned, encouraged or rewarded in any sense whatsoever.

I quit WOW for that very reason, and the abusive, manipulative and toxic atmospheres they created. Allow parsers in the game, and on the foilowing day you will have some wannabe spamming parser numbers in Sastasha. It wont happen?

Yes, it will. I gaurantee it.

Lastly, any so called 'raid leader" who cannot, or WILL NOT, get their point across without screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs needs to uninstall the game. walk away, and take a good long hard look at themselves.

If you lose your mind this badly over a game, if THIS is how you treat others, then the problem aint the game.

Curious how "identifying a problem backed up with numbers" is automatically "screaming obscenities at the top of their lungs".

So, let me give you a quite realistic scenario about a static:
the static managed to play mechanics consistently but they keep wiping to enrage. Not just once or twice, no, it's always that damn enrage. Not just by 1-2% but by a noticable amount, let's say something close to 10%.
Something needs to be done about dps because it's obviously not as high as it should be but since nobody runs or is allowed to run a parser, upload the logs to fflogs and plug them into xiva, you can't tell who is not pulling their weight. Maybe you'll look at the aggro table and see MT and OT as 1st and 2nd, then come the 4 DPS and healers on 7th and 8th.
Alright, looks completely fine, yes?
Okay, let's look at the 4 DPS specifically. The SAM with the Dance Partner is 3rd, great! As it should be. SMN and DRG are 4th and 5th, sometimes one is ahead, sometimes the other. DNC is 6th. Looks fine.

Except that tanks are supposed to be 1st and 2nd in aggro and they will be even if their dps is low. Healers will be 7th and 8th, whether their dps is low or high. The aggro rankings for DPS only give you a rough idea but not about how much ahead someone is. The SAM with DP could be barely out-dpsing the SMN/ DRG by something like 100 dps but they still appear ahead because of the DP padding. A DNC being 6th could mean they're barely ahead of the healers in terms of dps or maybe they're the star DPS of the group. Who knows?

So, what will the raid lead do?
"We keep wiping to enrage, we should all focus on doing more dps to make it. We can do it! We got this, mates, just focus on getting your rotation right!"?
People can feel great or bad for their performance all day, without clear numbers it's just a feeling and the better informed a raid lead is, the better decisions they can make. Now they have information to accurately identify problems and approach the people that need to work most on pulling their weight.
Informed decisions are always better than uninformed ones.
How they get delivered is up to each person and you're naive if you think that just because a raid lead doesn't run a parser, he'll be Mr. supportive nice guy and just because someone does, they'd automatically be the toxic elitist, insulting everyone and their moms.

Parsers itself are not toxic.
Some players can be toxic and they will be, regardless of parsers existing or not.
What reins them in are ToS and their strict enforcement.
But someone who uses a parser isn't automatically problematic. Only someone who uses them to openly insult others is - but that's what reports are for.