The Atrocious Changes to Bard in Endwalker and the future

[ExcogEnjoyer]

the ranger/archer people would be better off with a class that uses a crossbow where they can effectively focus on stuff like poison arrows etc.

No, I believe I speak for a lot of people when I say that I think that the Bard flavor we currently have (Archer who uses a bow that can morph into a harp to buff his allies as a ranged support) is far, far more inspired than "Just a guy with a harp" and "just a guy with a bow"

To be fair I will agree on the notion that the current "songs" we have are not enough to bolster the Bard part of the Bard/Archer dichotomy. However, I genuinely think the better solution is to delete the songs, and replace them with something actually interesting rather than simply make them do more.

[Smartfork]

My main thoughts now on how Bard feels to play is that I’m better off playing dancer if I want to play something so simple.
I miss the management of dots.

[Easayia]

now the ranger/archer people would be better off with a class that uses a crossbow where they can effectively focus on stuff like poison arrows etc. I would even play that class too alongside a real Bard. But with the current state of the job, Bard is the last ranged job I'd recommend to anyone.

your basically giving all Bards that actually like the job and how it plays the middle finger doing that so no. Current Bards design is fine it just needs more to keep it busy thats it. The dots currently are already not tied to the kit so either buffing how the procs occur so its more often and maybe making dots still buff single target skills such as sidewinder would be the right dirrection so the dots still have more of a purpose then just damage while also keeping the new AOE rotation and the new stuff.

[Connor]

your basically giving all Bards that actually like the job and how it plays the middle finger .

Hasn’t SE been doing that for the past four expansions now?

Personally I wouldn’t mind if they made Bard and Archer separate jobs. I also wouldn’t mind if they continued with the current hybrid style.

What I do mind is when they ignore one half of that ‘hybrid’ outside of some token skills and start getting lazy with the sections they do focus on.

I don’t think anyone is advocating for Bards to lose anything they have now. Or that what it has now is ‘broken
at its core. Especially in terms of the main mechanics. What people are asking for is for what we have now to be improved to be as engaging as it is for every other class. For the job’s gameplay to be as mechanically engaging as it is for any other class, in a way that reinforces what the class is about. Like how Summoner moved from being DoT Focused to Summon Focused, but probably much less drastic.

Any one of the myriad oGCDs could’ve been ‘Song of Painful Damage’ and have the exact same effect as they do now and I’d probably be not be here complaining. We have one half of the hybrid that’s neglected (songs, support, etc), and one half that’s begun using flashy lasers to distract from it being wholly lacklustre. I don’t blame people for thinking a separation of the two when there’s not much to satisfy either party currently.

I think the desire for Bard to separate from Archer is a symptom of the problem rather than the solution. If SE had properly created a hybrid that satisfies both parties, it wouldn’t be a thought in anyone’s head. That’s not to say that I speak for anyone other than myself, and what I ‘think’ Bards are saying

[Easayia]

Hasn’t SE been doing that for the past four expansions now?


I don’t think anyone is advocating for Bards to lose anything they have now. Or that what it has now is ‘broken
at its core. Especially in terms of the main mechanics. What people are asking for is for what we have now to be improved to be as engaging as it is for every other class. For the job’s gameplay to be as mechanically engaging as it is for any other class, in a way that reinforces what the class is .


are saying

? 4 expansions so what the whole game? Bards had good times many would say Stormblood Bard was the best version because it had things to help the party and give back mana but SE has removed this synergy on many jobs not just BARD.

If your telling me that the other jobs have more engageing mechanics then bard then Im not sure why your playing bard?

The reason I play Bard is because unlike most of the other jobs my rotation doesnt consist of 1234 and pressing what glows up next consistently Bard Has an active tracking of RNG and making sure to use things when they proc. What this does is it creates a rotation that is never the same every single time you get back to your burst phase its always changing. Many jobs are static rotations with minimal variation to it. That is why I like Bard and how it plays, well that and back when Archeage launched I played Ebonsong and its got a similar concept to Bard. The issue with bard right now isnt that the dots lost the main procs its

1. The dots are now only damage at the very least if they are going to keep them make sidewinder be based on the dots again.

2. Proccs are only now 1 instead of 2 every 3 seconds so either make the songs proc 2 times or increase that 80% proc to 90% or heck even just taking bloodletter and instead of reducing its cooldown make it come off cooldown immediately like it was doing before.

Current Bard is still workable if you save your 3 charges of blood letter for that burst window ( refill during peon) but once you run out of things the proccs just come in so slow until you hit mages then it speeds up again. But because less proccs now Peon feels even more burst shot then it did before and your in it for an even longer time.......

[aveyond-dreams]

I think the desire for Bard to separate from Archer is a symptom of the problem rather than the solution. If SE had properly created a hybrid that satisfies both parties, it wouldn’t be a thought in anyone’s head. That’s not to say that I speak for anyone other than myself, and what I ‘think’ Bards are saying

Exactly this. Both the ranger and musical parts of the job are failing badly. Do them right, or not at all.

[Shurrikhan]

? 4 expansions so what the whole game? Bards had good times many would say Stormblood Bard was the best version because it had things to help the party and give back mana but SE has removed this synergy on many jobs not just BARD.

Tbf, "Bard" hasn't given MP since HW. In Stormblood, that was merely a property of Refresh, available to every Physical Ranged, and in a way that had zero interactions with how one played, since you'd basically just use it on CD.

The reason I play Bard is because unlike most of the other jobs my rotation doesnt consist of 1234 and pressing what glows up next consistently.

Right. It has 1111 and pressing what glows, for a 2, until you hit 3 once per 45s to refresh DoTs. Oh, and 4 and 5 once and only once per fight before they're replaced by 3...

What this does is it creates a rotation that is never the same every single time you get back to your burst phase its always changing.

You're never going to not IJ just because your RA popped. Your rotation is unvaried except in that a random number of 1s are substituted for 2s.

If all that is what has staked out Bard's identity, I can't help but wonder why it wouldn't be open to change as to better capitalize on a hybrid style. It's certainly managing neither the Bard nor Arcane Archer component well at present.

[Jirah]

I’m still very very mixed on the approach, still fairs better than DNC and miles better than MCH imo

Dots being removed is very controversial and will yet again for the 7th time in a row, only please non-mains who probably think SMN is well designed (hot take withstanding, I see you aveyond) but will only ONLY condone it if it’s replaced by something equally as engaging which again seeing SMN MCH and SCH, they don’t have a tendency to retain, only remove as the non-mains don’t care.

This would mean 3 skills and their evolutionary upgrades to be removed. Which technically speaking it could still stand on its own, it’ll just lose and not gain. I’m not for job reduction for reduction sake obviously so unless theirs alternatives stop saying remove mechanics.

[Jirah]

your basically giving all Bards that actually like the job and how it plays the middle finger doing that so no. Current Bards design is fine it just needs more to keep it busy thats it. The dots currently are already not tied to the kit so either buffing how the procs occur so its more often and maybe making dots still buff single target skills such as sidewinder would be the right dirrection so the dots still have more of a purpose then just damage while also keeping the new AOE rotation and the new stuff.

I saw go further and have sidewinder grant a rep if suffering from both dots. This adds some organic reward system.

[Sindal]

Given that I like current bard. The only thing I would ask for personally is:

-Giving AP a capping repetoir function. Maybe it gives 10 soulgauge instead of 5 once fully capped.
-Give nature's minne a lil something extra. Right now it has uses but isn't necessary in anything but potentially the highest of damage instances. Heck, turn it into a rez. A long cooldown rez button, even if it only works under special circumstances like it only works if the target dies. That'd give bard something no other non magical dps has.
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