[MAJOR ENDWALKER/SHADOWBRINGER SPOILERS] On the introduction of dynamis.

[MirronTulaxia]

Really? How so and how can that be when Meteion and Dynamis were just introduced mid-Endwalker? Also what key differences?

Meteion is ultimately something coming from the Ancients. Not coming from an alien, that alone is a big difference.

And dealing with the meaning of life, hope in the face of despair, is definitely a big difference from “aliens just want to conquer you”. That’s a thematic point that is very strong through the game.

[Cleretic]

Dynamis was conceptually there all through the game, just not a literal known and quantified concept.

[kpxmanifesto]

Meteion is ultimately something coming from the Ancients. Not coming from an alien, that alone is a big difference.

And dealing with the meaning of life, hope in the face of despair, is definitely a big difference from “aliens just want to conquer you”. That’s a thematic point that is very strong through the game.

You're not really addressing my point here. My point is that I believe Meteion and Dynamis were weak plot devices used to explain the Final Days and the fall of the Ascians, and I think there could've been a better main antagonist. Why do you believe that Meteion being a creation of the ancients and not a creation of someone on an alien planet like Ultima Thule to be a better plot? Also are you saying that the themes of "dealing with the meaning of life, hope in the face of despair" would be nonexistent in a plot where Meteion is from a different planet?

Also, I never said I would have liked the plot to be "aliens just want to conquer you." I was just saying I think the plot could've been vastly more interesting and complex if there was an outside actor responsible for the Final Days rather than just a science experiment gone wrong which what Meteion is in principle.

[MirronTulaxia]

You're not really addressing my point here. My point is that I believe Meteion and Dynamis were weak plot devices used to explain the Final Days and the fall of the Ascians, and I think there could've been a better main antagonist. Why do you believe that Meteion being a creation of the ancients and not a creation of someone on an alien planet like Ultima Thule to be a better plot? Also are you saying that the themes of "dealing with the meaning of life, hope in the face of despair" would be nonexistent in a plot where Meteion is from a different planet?

I think it would make the end of the Ascians something from outside the Ascians which certainly paints a different story. Do you think there is a difference between a society, inadvertently or not, causing their own doom or being destroyed by an outside force? To me it reads as though you think they’re one and the same.

[kpxmanifesto]

I think it would make the end of the Ascians something from outside the Ascians which certainly paints a different story. Do you think there is a difference between a society, inadvertently or not, causing their own doom or being destroyed by an outside force? To me it reads as though you think they’re one and the same.

I have absolutely no idea how that's your take away from what I said. I'm just stating my opinion that Etheirys being destroyed by an outside force would've made a much more interesting story than the current one.

[MirronTulaxia]

And I disagree. There really isn’t anything of note to explore there or much of anything of substance to it. It’s just “some random guys decided to invade” which means effectively dealing with the Garlemald on a galactic scale. I don’t see anything interesting with that at all.

[kpxmanifesto]

And I disagree. There really isn’t anything of note to explore there or much of anything of substance to it. It’s just “some random guys decided to invade” which means effectively dealing with the Garlemald on a galactic scale. I don’t see anything interesting with that at all.

There's so much more to explore if that were the case. In the game, the Meteia already made contact with several alien civilizations and that opens up so much more potential for lore. Who are these guys? What do they want? What are their motives? What kind of technology do they have? What's their political or cultural values like? But no, it's just Meteion becoming depressed after seeing all these alien civilizations suffer and now she wants to put everyone out of their misery. It felt like such a cop-out.

[MirronTulaxia]

I’m certainly interested in learning about other cultures, especially aliens. Doesn’t make for a good capstone of the games narrative. Like, what exactly is the message of the story if it’s just “some aliens want to conquer us because they want the planet, and use a super weapon to do so”. I don’t see anything interesting in that kind of story. Frankly I would probably have had Meteion be a representation, at least initially, of being exclusively our planets despair even.

[Lium]

You're not really addressing my point here. My point is that I believe Meteion and Dynamis were weak plot devices used to explain the Final Days and the fall of the Ascians, and I think there could've been a better main antagonist. Why do you believe that Meteion being a creation of the ancients and not a creation of someone on an alien planet like Ultima Thule to be a better plot? Also are you saying that the themes of "dealing with the meaning of life, hope in the face of despair" would be nonexistent in a plot where Meteion is from a different planet?

Also, I never said I would have liked the plot to be "aliens just want to conquer you." I was just saying I think the plot could've been vastly more interesting and complex if there was an outside actor responsible for the Final Days rather than just a science experiment gone wrong which what Meteion is in principle.

With respect, I think you missed the point of the story. The main antagonist was not Meteion. It was Despair itself. Meteion exists essentially as a gameplay mechanic. We as players have to have something to stab and shoot at in the final fight.

Have you ever seen the movie The Neverending Story? Remember The Nothing? That’s the antagonist in Endwalker. Meteion was basically an anthropomorphic representation of the emptiness found in the universe.

Which is, when you think about it, a truly terrifying proposition. That the world we live on is located in an endless graveyard of civilizations. Where everyone has gone extinct for one reason or the other. Not too dissimilar to the book The Dark Forest.

Honestly, Endwalker was the deepest and most emotional expansion yet, in my opinion. Others, such as HW and ShB may have been more exciting, but Endwalker was profoundly sad.

[kpxmanifesto]

With respect, I think you missed the point of the story. The main antagonist was not Meteion. It was Despair itself. Meteion exists essentially as a gameplay mechanic. We as players have to have something to stab and shoot at in the final fight.

Have you ever seen the movie The Neverending Story? Remember The Nothing? That’s the antagonist in Endwalker. Meteion was basically an anthropomorphic representation of the emptiness found in the universe.

Which is, when you think about it, a truly terrifying proposition. That the world we live on is located in an endless graveyard of civilizations. Where everyone has gone extinct for one reason or the other. Not too dissimilar to the book The Dark Forest.

Honestly, Endwalker was the deepest and most emotional expansion yet, in my opinion. Others, such as HW and ShB may have been more exciting, but Endwalker was profoundly sad.

This is just your personal interpretation. Of course Meteion was the main antagonist otherwise there wouldn't be anybody to fight. If Hermes did not create Meteion, then the Final Days wouldn't have happened.