Dear SquareEnix/Natsuko Ishikawa - About Zenos in Endwalker *MAJOR MSQ SPOILERS*!

[Senn]

Then the story completely negated the development you pointed out. What would be the point of the development? The point of the choice? You can’t say no—so the “development” led nowhere. Effectively undermining it.

It would been much better for the game to break away from the prior notion of choice not affecting the story. And would have probably helped what you’ve pointed out here. But the fact that it undermines it doesn’t help Zenos at all. It makes the entire thing worse, actually.

In the end, it was the WoL who chose to stay and fight. Zenos would have let them walk away. Narratively, nothing was undermined. It was all the WoL's decision. If you think the developers should have put in an option to reject the challenge, fair enough. But that doesn't change the fact that Zenos would have let the WoL walk away, proving he did have development in some fashion.

[Yencat]

that creepy guy at work that stands way too close to you in the elevator and says stuff like "Your hair smells nice" in creep like fashion. Probably sifts through your trash when no one is looking.

He's totally the guy that tells you to smile more and then curses you out when you don't respond.

If he shows up again I'm calling the police.

[Senn]

He had to give the WoL the choice. He wanted their attention; their all. He wanted the WoL to want to fight him. It's why Alisaie's words struck that cord with him. Forcing the fight wouldn't work.

Exactly. In the end, he learned not to be forceful about it and got what he wanted.

[HyoMinPark]

In the end, it was the WoL who chose to stay and fight. Zenos would have let them walk away. Narratively, nothing was undermined. It was all the WoL's decision. If you think the developers should have put in an option to reject the challenge, fair enough. But that doesn't change the fact that Zenos would have let you walk away, proving he did have development in some fashion.

Except we, the players, did not get the choice—and that caused its own disconnect amongst players; and I have read a lot of criticisms about this. My WoL would not have fought him. She would have left his desperate, hair-sniffing butt there to ponder his existence for the rest of his days. You cannot have a character’s development hinge on the choice of the player character when the player character is never actually given a choice. Just the illusion of one. Again, the story is undermining everything you’re trying to say here.

Nonetheless, saying that a puddle on the sidewalk in the middle of a hot summer day got a couple drops deeper changes nothing, really. He’s still not an interesting character, and I don’t consider his development even note-worthy.

Exactly. In the end, he learned not to be forceful about it and got what he wanted.

Which actually brings to light a completely separate issue in the manipulation sociopaths/psychopaths/narcissists employ in order to get others to do what they want but…Zenos is totally misunderstood character deserving of redemption (per the OP, not you).

[MoofiaBossVal]

I like Zenos, but I am saddened that he has been so terribly wasted. He spent most of Stormblood sitting around waiting for the WoL to come to him. He then gets to actually do stuff in the Stormblood patches as he makes his way back to Garlemald chasing after Elidibus. Then he reclaims his body and sits around doing nothing for the entirety of the ShB patches. And then he barely has 5 minutes of screentime in Endwalker prior to the final duel. It felt like he spent 80% of his total screentime in FFXIV doing nothing.

In fact, why was even Zenos advertised on the box art cover along with the Scions? Hermes/Fandaniel had way more presence than him in the Endwalker story.

And Zenos didn't even get to kill anybody (who we cared about). He killed Y'shtola... and then it was immediately reversed 5 minutes later. I think literally the only people in the entire game he ever killed was 1. that one Centurion for coming back without the rest of his squad, 2. his dad, and... um... yeah that's it. For all of the hype, he was never allowed to actually have fangs. Biggest disappointment was when he hijacked my body, was literally standing right in front of G'raha and Alisae, and then failed to shank either of them.

[Senn]

Except we, the players, did not get the choice—

Yeah, but that doesn't really matter. At this point, it seems like the WoL has a personality of their own somewhat. And they chose to fight Zenos, plain and simple. I can understand why you may personally not like that, but that doesn't change how the story was written. And it doesn't change the fact he did develop, even if barely, because Zenos would not give the the WoL the option to walk away if he hadn't. No, the game doesn't actually give you the player an option - stop breaking the fourth wall.

[Elysidelphi]

I like Zenos, but I am saddened that he has been so terribly wasted. He spent most of Stormblood sitting around waiting for the WoL to come to him. He then gets to actually do stuff in the Stormblood patches as he makes his way back to Garlemald chasing after Elidibus. Then he reclaims his body and sits around doing nothing for the entirety of the ShB patches. And then he barely has 5 minutes of screentime in Endwalker prior to the final duel. It felt like he spent 80% of his total screentime in FFXIV doing nothing.

In fact, why was even Zenos advertised on the box art cover along with the Scions? Hermes/Fandaniel had way more presence than him in the Endwalker story.

And Zenos didn't even get to kill anybody (who we cared about). He killed Y'shtola... and then it was immediately reversed 5 minutes later. I think literally the only people in the entire game he ever killed was 1. that one Centurion for coming back without the rest of his squad, 2. his dad, and... um... yeah that's it. For all of the hype, he was never allowed to actually have fangs. Biggest disappointment was when he hijacked my body, was literally standing right in front of G'raha and Alisae, and then failed to shank either of them.

I agree with everything you said. Do you think Zenos is completely out of the story now, or do you think he will be back? Do you have any preferences?

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah, but that doesn't really matter. At this point, it seems like the WoL has a personality of their own somewhat. And they chose to fight Zenos, plain and simple. I can understand why you may personally not like that, but that doesn't change how the story was written. And it doesn't change the fact he did develop, even if barely, because Zenos would not give the the WoL the option walk away if he hadn't. No, the game doesn't actually give you the player an option - stop breaking the fourth wall.

Then, to be blunt, that is poor writing.

[MoofiaBossVal]

I agree with everything you said. Do you think Zenos is completely out of the story now, or do you think he will be back? Do you have any preferences?

What is done is done. Zenos was done dirty but bringing him back would be even worse. When it comes to long running game storylines, I think one of FFXIV's unique selling points is that the villains generally die and stay dead (unlike Trails, where the villains almost always escape to continue haunting the franchise and never get their comeuppance, or WoW where the new writers suck and can't get the audience to care about their new villains, so they keep resurrecting old popular villains).

[Senn]

Then, to be blunt, that is poor writing.

I'm not talking about if it's good writing or not, but I mean sure, that's a valid opinion to have.