Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[Dyvid]

That's another gripe I have with the rework. Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix are inconsistent.

Like people have mentioned, Demi-Phoenix is a DPS loss because it has a heal for its Astral Flow ability. Then you'd likely hold on 4 stacks of Fester during your Demi-Bahamut phase cause I assume that's the best time to utilize the party wide buff. Demi-Phoenix is basically left with nothing.

Then yeah the lack of ogcds. Back then you had two Enkindles, Energy Drain/Siphon, Fester/Painflare, Tri-Disaster, Bane for spreading DoTs. You had a lot to use. The least they can do now is give us two Enkindles again I guess.

Don't forget the 1/2 combo that was removed as well ><

[Rochedalaix]

Not a Summoner and never will be but I feel they dropped the ball on the class hard. Summoner should have easily been the most versatile and fun class to play as a hybrid. Instead of the creation of Scholar they should just have had the Summoners stats and spells change with the pet they Summon. So if they need to be healer they can Summon the Faerie, need a tank than Titan, Dots than Diablo or Ifrit. Buffs and support for party than Carbuncle.

[Rolder50]

Don't forget the 1/2 combo that was removed as well ><

1/2 combo is too complicated obviously, can't give summoners more then one button at a time!

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Been leveling SMN from level 1 on an alt I made a week before early access. I'm level 56 now and it's been the most boring experience ever. Leveling RDM in tandem just so I don't die from SMN's boring boredom.

Takes 42 levels to get the AoE version of Energy Drain (learned at level 10). You learn Energy Siphon at level 52, wish it was level 30 like before.

Takes a whopping 48 levels to get the upgraded version of Outburst. Stuck spamming Outburst, and it's many clones, until halfway through Shadowbringers content, which I'm nowhere near. It's going to be fun still spamming Outburst even though I'll have learned Ruin 3, at level 54, and learned the elemental versions of Ruin 3 at level 72 long before Tri-disaster. Tri-Disaster is learned at level 74 btw.

Emerald Carbuncle functions as a single target attack until level 45 when it is then nerfed from a 400 potency single target attack to a 100 potency aoe in the form of Garuda until you get to 50 and get Enkindle then the potency is shot straight up to 600 with AoE falloff. Your single target dps takes a hit from levels 45 to 50.

Titan and Ifrit lose their AoE properties in all content pre-level 50 yet Garuda, albeit it's a hefty 300 potency loss in the single target department, gets to be an AoE earlier on although a really crappy one.

The SMN rotation does not change at all from levels 10 to 59 until you finally learn another cooldown at level 60, oh ye gods a cooldown! SMN has those?, and even then it barely changes your rotation as it's just 1 extra button to press every 60 seconds in tandem with Dreadwyrmcharge.

It will take another 10 levels for SMN to learn Enkindle Bahamut to change up the rotation but again it's still just 1 extra button to press every 60 seconds. (I don't count Ruin 4 as a remarkable change and even then it's still 1 extra button, yet again, every 60 seconds. I also don't count Searing Light either as almost every job has a buff like that now)

And SMN's rotation will not change for another 16 levels, as Phoenix is just a fire version of Bahamut but with a heal instead of Deathflare (yay...), until you finally finally learn the thing that will change SMN's rotation by a significant amount, Elemental Mastery.

You learn things that actually shake up SMN's Ruin/Outburst spam way too late that once I get this job to level 90 I will never take this butchered monstrosity into synced content. I'll just bring RDM into synced because at least that job functions and plays well and isn't absolutely gutted pre-60 or pre-86.

[Grimoire-M]

I will never take this butchered monstrosity into synced content. I'll just bring RDM into synced because at least that job functions and plays well and isn't absolutely gutted pre-60 or pre-86.

The reason to take it into older content is just so you have to hardcast spells again.


A better way to put it is Scholar has better buttons, better resource management, better pet mechanics, and better feedback from each action compared to Summoner.

Scholar is a better Summoner than Summoner. Scholar is a better Arcanist too.

Scholar, a one button rotation green DPS, is more engaging to play than Summoner.

[Tulzscha]

Not a Summoner and never will be but I feel they dropped the ball on the class hard. Summoner should have easily been the most versatile and fun class to play as a hybrid. Instead of the creation of Scholar they should just have had the Summoners stats and spells change with the pet they Summon. So if they need to be healer they can Summon the Faerie, need a tank than Titan, Dots than Diablo or Ifrit. Buffs and support for party than Carbuncle.

That was my dream, that SMN could have access to a bunch of summons with different niche purposes. Maybe not to the extent that they could fill other roles but ah well it's too complex an idea for this game regardless.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

Gonna quote myself from another thread since I'm too lazy to type this out again.

Personally I think the Idea that the Devs had with EWSMN has potential in and of itself, but the implementation is very lackluster.

To put it concisely:
If you're hinging so much of a Jobs identity on mechanically and visually distinct phases then that identity needs to be there throughout the leveling experience and not just thrown in a few levels before cap.

Shine/Brilliance are not enough to carry the 'personality' of the phases on their own, and reusing the current Ruin/Outburst Animations isn't helping matters.
Both the Gem-stral Flows and summon specific animations need to be there much sooner.

Egis could use a bump in size to be easier to see if you're not willing to give High Summoning sooner; for supposedly being a main feature of the job they get drowned out by every other Jobs animations by level 70, and yet only get replaced at 90...

While it's nice to have Carbuncle there, the utility he's supposed to provide is greatly lessened by the constant (re)summoning going on, which still leads to ghosting.

Speaking of ghosting, personally I feel Summons as a whole are actually kind of disconnected from the rotation since they can ghost actions entirely without affecting much, and while I understand why it's designed that way it still feels odd.

On a more personal side: I always liked how SMN in XIV was presented as a capable caster even outside of their Summoning Skillset; however this aspect feels very stripped down. While Rekindle is nice to have, I'd still have preferred if they' do just fixed Physick. And I don't want to lose Rez either. Let the Caster be the utility guy and the Summons (and related concepts) do the damage.

Overall: Idea has potential, implementation is meh; needs a redesign of the leveling experience, some spruced up low level animations (at least colour code Ruin/Outburst if you're going to reuse them), maybe combine Summon Carbuncle into Infusion and make his abilities usable by the Summoner, to make the Utility more consistent

I really don't think there need to be so much defensiveness if someone points out an issue; it's unlikely SE is gonna go back entirely, but if a relatively sizable Group of players realize the same issues then SE needs to be made aware so they can be fixed.

(Sorry if this post feels robotic, too sleepy for personal flair, lol)

Just to add to this: Kinda frustrated how many people seem to be fine with the issues other people point out just because they like the aesthetic more. A job can look pretty and play well at the same time, and I don't think most people that have complained want to go back to SHB SMN; they just want the new iteration to live up to its potential, and clearly for a lot of people the job isn't quite there.
I don't think it's unreasonable to like the job as is, but it's also not unreasonable to be disappointed and expect more, especially since Yoshida made a big deal about how much effort they supposedly spent on this...

(Also, I'd bet on SMN becoming one of the most boosted jobs if it remains as is)

[rewd]

SMN just doesn't have an identity anymore. It is essentially the foolproof caster job for those who want to get into the role. You have a couple of casts so you can get used to them and then play the more serious and more rewarding Black Mage. You have a GCD in melee range so you can get accustomed to the hybrid nature of Red Mage and its peculiar tempo.

SMN just stands there: easy, boring, unsatisfying, unrewarding. An empty shell with pretty particle effects. Particle effects you want to tone down if you want to see anything on the battlefield, I might add.

What a pity to see your main job reduced to this.

[Niyuka]

I think SMN just fills the role of the most newcomer friendly caster, with RDM being a step up, and BLM being the advanced magic DPS class.
You can see this pattern in other roles as well. SE seems to be horrified of the idea that players may be overwhelmed and scared away by the least amount of complexity and decision space, and tries to create these crowdpleasing jobs that just tell you the pattern of buttons to press to do well enough. Ask the Shb Dancers how that felt.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

SMN just doesn't have an identity anymore. It is essentially the foolproof caster job for those who want to get into the role. You have a couple of casts so you can get used to them and then play the more serious and more rewarding Black Mage. You have a GCD in melee range so you can get accustomed to the hybrid nature of Red Mage and its peculiar tempo.

SMN just stands there: easy, boring, unsatisfying, unrewarding. An empty shell with pretty particle effects. Particle effects you want to tone down if you want to see anything on the battlefield, I might add.

What a pity to see your main job reduced to this.

I think SMN just fills the role of the most newcomer friendly caster, with RDM being a step up, and BLM being the advanced magic DPS class.
You can see this pattern in other roles as well. SE seems to be horrified of the idea that players may be overwhelmed and scared away by the least amount of complexity and decision space, and tries to create these crowdpleasing jobs that just tell you the pattern of buttons to press to do well enough. Ask the Shb Dancers how that felt.

To be fair, if the people already at cap are to be believed, it's gets somewhat more interesting around 86, but at that point the question becomes: Why does it take that long? It's not like the jobs beats you over the head with complexity. Which is fine in itself, but having to wait for the bits of complexity that are there just makes the Job feel stale.
And why is it only that one ability anyway? Why was Aetherflow left hanging in that disconnected space instead of being adjusted to function like a low level Astral Flow, if not as an additional Primal Spell altogether. Not like the Job suffers from button bloat

Leaving the job to sit there and get stale from 22 to 86 is just objectively bad design.

It's like they wanted to rework it but we're afraid to put actual effort into it in case it gets badly received; and now most of the bad reception comes from players that feel like SE didn't even try.