Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[Rolder50]

The Elemental Mastery trait definitely needs to be sooner in the levelups. I don't know how people are going to level this up without falling asleep at the wheel otherwise.

[rewd]

I cannot handle others having a different opinion :P? Yet you are the one throwing "your IQ must be pitifully low if you think X is hard to play" or "nobody cares about you enjoying SMN" sort of replies o.O. You have a strange understanding of being civil , may god have mercy upon the souls of your close friends/relatives.

Take your time to read messages more carefully this time, before putting words in my mouth (or anyone else's), please.

Some people calling this SMN braindead and not realizing there's actually quite a lot of room for optimization here. Ruby Ifrit is mostly the big offender in this rotation and the one that can mostly mess your flow, where you place him actually matters, a lot.

This is what you said. If you think that one hardcast (before you will Swiftcast the other) and a melee GCD is a "lot of room of optimization" (or optimization, period...) then I can't even fathom how terribly hard to play BLM and RDM. Considering the latter was never considered hard to play (or even to optimize, although it does have interesting stuff), then there is something seriously wrong with your statement.

"SMN actually has a lot of optimization!" (<- that,somehow, only you were able to notice)
"That's just doing your rotation correctly, it's not optimization"
"Opinions. I like new SMN"

Cool, that's not the topic though (and not an adequate rebuttal), which is why I said no one cares about you liking or not liking the rework, because it has nothing to do with what we are saying. Go ahead and antagonize me, though, the lack of arguments was already clear.

[Maxilor]

I like the new Summoner. I really really like it.

It's flashy, it's simple, it feels powerful and even has a Group DPS buff and a Resurrect you can use in a pinch.

I really enjoy this new Summoner.

But I don't think that old Summoner should have been sacrificed for it. I personally hated old SMN. I felt it was clunky and needlessly complex,
but a lot of people played and love it and I don't think that should have been taken away from them just to interest people like me.

The game already had a fun, flashy and simple caster job, it's called Red Mage and I main it as my DPS class already.

[Rolder50]

Oh I'm aware. I can read some of the Japanese forums and I know they are just as pissed as we are about some things.

According to my static mate who is fluent, they aren't 100% sold on new smn yet either

Good, good. That side of the player base not liking something is pretty much the only way it'll get changed.

[rewd]

Good, good. That side of the player base not liking something is pretty much the only way it'll get changed.

Don't they complain about DRK too? Or Living Dead at the very least?

Don't get me wrong, that's nice to hear, but...

[Sequora]

Unless you’re paraphrasing, not being 100% sold on something doesn’t sound like they’re pissed lol.

[dinnertime]

The level 86 trait should instead be available at 60 once you get Astral Flow, or at least a weaker version. Pre-level 86 it's a little boring because we have all of these instant casts from the elemental attunements of Gemshine and Precious Brilliance, with barely any ogcds to weave in-between.

It's weird because the rework makes sure the job doesn't play too differently at certain levels by doing skill mastery traits, but there's nothing for Astral Flow on the Egis so there's some discrepancy from 60 to 86.

Meanwhile Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix phases can feel pretty mundane with your only ogcds being Aetherflow spells. Right now the Aetherflow mechanic it's more of an oversight than it does blend nicely with the job's kit. Maybe instead they should utilize elemental attunement stacks for Gemshine and Precious Brilliance on the Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix phases, giving us ogcd stacks to weave with.

That or maybe tie Aetherflow in with Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix, giving us stacks every time we summon them to be used on that duration (bye Energy Drain and Energy Siphon) and give us 3 or 4 stacks to play with instead.

[Madoka]

New SMN is extremely simple to play, extremely flashy, extremely powerful and extremely boring. I've said since ARR if they did a system like this to appease the "SMN needs big summons" crowd it would probably end up losing a lot of what made it fun to play and a standout class in the game. And it did. It's probably too simple since you essentially have all your buttons by 60 and just keep gaining new traits that modify them, with the most interesting one being at 86 since it gives you a few new things to do. That 86 trait could absolutely be placed earlier in the levels and just upgraded to current potencies at 86 to help new players not get bored as hell on it. 5 trances wasn't the answer but there's still some things they could do.

- Make each elemental trance more unique. They're all just aoe button, or single target button with bonus 86 gimmick. Even phoenix lost its combo. They could add one or two more abilities that are ogcd but eat the elemental charges to Garuda, and maybe give back ifrit's burn dot as another skill you could cast instead of 2 ruby ruins. Or add more titan-like combos that offer a weave for the weave starved ShB SMN players.
- Give arcanist a third job with old SMN abilities. lol
- Make the elemental phases actual trances where those summons come out and send follow up slaps and move their entry bursts to an enkindle. Make it a 90 cap thing

I'd need more time for more realistic ideas but as it stands if you want something easy to raid on SMN is pretty smoothbrain right now. The only fight diversity choice is figuring out if you use ifrit or garuda second for a fight, since you have to find the best time to stand still and cast ifrit's ruin inbetween all the instants. also feels like phoenix should have a damaging skill on rekindle. You actually lose dps per cycle after gaining FBT since you lose a deathflare to rekindle every minute. We already have everlasting flight on entry, so having another regen seems pointless at that moment and for solo play only being able to heal every 2 minutes isn't very useful. If they want us to have a heal available they could finally do something with physick.

I did not try to gather my thoughts before this post so it's kinda just a stream of words I was thinking but above all though, I would like a toggle to lessen the effects of Enkindle II. They cover mechanics too much in Extremes and I don't want to turn all of my skills off just to turn them off. I've mained SMN since ARR, that won't change and I'm used to it being completely different every expansion. This is just my least favorite version personally despite being functionally good.

[Tulzscha]

Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix phases can feel pretty mundane with your only ogcds being Aetherflow spells.

Yeh it's kinda strange, most of the job is packed with stuff to do but the big burst phases are pretty empty, those phases and the short periods of time after summoning a non-demi are the worst feeling parts of the job imo. It's also still weird to me how the big demi summons allow the use of the smaller summons. I see why it's that way it's just weird.

Idk the optimal rotation for SMN but I get the impression we want to hold Ruin 4 and Aetherflow so we get double of each with Bahamut every 2 mins. I get 6 gcds in Bahamut + the summon itself, it comes with 2 ogcds and with 4 Festers + Energy Drain that's 7 out of 14 ogcds used, so one per gcd, but that leaves Phoenix with its two + a single Energy Drain and that's it for ogcds. It wouldn't feel as bad if it still had its 1-2 rotation at least but spamming one button with nothing else to do or even think about, bleh. If at the very least the demis had more of a rotation than spamming one button it'd feel a lot better.

[dinnertime]

That's another gripe I have with the rework. Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix are inconsistent.

Like people have mentioned, Demi-Phoenix is a DPS loss because it has a heal for its Astral Flow ability. Then you'd likely hold on 4 stacks of Fester during your Demi-Bahamut phase cause I assume that's the best time to utilize the party wide buff. Demi-Phoenix is basically left with nothing.

Then yeah the lack of ogcds. Back then you had two Enkindles, Energy Drain/Siphon, Fester/Painflare, Tri-Disaster, Bane for spreading DoTs. You had a lot to use. The least they can do now is give us two Enkindles again I guess.