Sage - Single target damage v other healers

[rewd]

This thread is discussing single target DPS, which is the most relevant in raid settings. That said, I do acknowledge the limitations in comparisons. Assize is off global, Phlegma is GCD, and Misery is 4x GCD. I still think Phlegma is very strong.

Assize and Misery are both very good in casual/dungeon settings.

I know this is about ST. You said that Phlegma outclasses Assize but you didn't reply to my question. Phlegma is strong and I agree, but it isn't better than Assize.

[Risvertasashi]

I know this is about ST. You said that Phlegma outclasses Assize but you didn't reply to my question. Phlegma is strong and I agree, but it isn't better than Assize.

So, again, we can't compare them on every point because none of the abilities are "exactly the same but only differing in potency" or anything like that. Trying to look at the whole picture - well if you look at WHM for example, it has glare, dia, assize, and PoM in its standard rotation. Misery if it comes up but you actually want to try to avoid it - using it is mitigation for a failure case.

Phlegma is sort of comparable to assize in that it is ST burst DPS. A WHM is going to use assize in its opener, and every 45s thereafter. A sage is going to use 2x phlegma in its opener, and sometimes every 45s thereafter but the 2 charges mean it can hold one to line up with burst windows.

Now in a dungeon setting, of course, 400 potency with no diminishing return, assize is super good. In a single-target raid setting, 400 potency burst is... not bad, but not *that* good either. And then it won't line up with raid windows very often, because you have to use it on CD or lose potency.

[Gemina]

I know this is about ST. You said that Phlegma outclasses Assize but you didn't reply to my question. Phlegma is strong and I agree, but it isn't better than Assize.

Phelgma is stronger on ST. I think that is what it boils down to. It can't outclass Assize as the two skills are classed and function differently. There's no contest to be won by either skill here.

[Superskull85]

(I am not trying to cause trouble with this but wanted to add.)

Some starting points:
- Phlegma is a spell and thus a GCD
- Assize is an ability and thus an oGCD
- Dosis is a spell
- Glare is a spell

Because Assize is an oGCD a WHM can could use Glare and kinda clip Assize in the 1 second left in their GCD. So for one GCD a WHM's output is more like Glare + something like 80% (minimum) Assize. (effectively because you might clip into your next Glare.

While for SGE Phlegma takes up a whole GCD in place of Dosis. So for one GCD a SGE's output is more like Dosis + (Phlegma - Dosis). Phlegma may not outpace Assize usage because in practice Phlegma's potency is effectively reduced to maybe 20%? if you wanted to compare it indirectly to Assize.

I don't have any numbers to share but intuitively (Glare + Assize) > (Phlegma) every 45s. I think that is what some posters were getting at earlier too.

[AnotherPerson]

(I am not trying to cause trouble with this but wanted to add.)

Some starting points:
- Phlegma is a spell and thus a GCD
- Assize is an ability and thus an oGCD
- Dosis is a spell
- Glare is a spell

Because Assize is an oGCD a WHM can could use Glare and kinda clip Assize in the 1 second left in their GCD. So for one GCD a WHM's output is more like Glare + something like 80% (minimum) Assize. (effectively because you might clip into your next Glare.

While for SGE Phlegma takes up a whole GCD in place of Dosis. So for one GCD a SGE's output is more like Dosis + (Phlegma - Dosis). Phlegma may not outpace Assize usage because in practice Phlegma's potency is effectively reduced to maybe 20%? if you wanted to compare it indirectly to Assize.

I don't have any numbers to share but intuitively (Glare + Assize) > (Phlegma) every 45s. I think that is what some posters were getting at earlier too.

You don't clip Assize in Glare. OGCDs take 0.7 seconds animation lock usually. Glare is 1.5 second cast timer with a 2.5 sec recast, so you can fit an Assize in a GCD. Notable exceptions to the 0.7 second animation lock would be like RDM's displacement (because moving back causes a 1.1 animation lock).