A Place for Everyone - An Open Letter on the Future of Crafting and Gathering

[Jojoya]

- If you don't enjoy crafting or gathering, you shouldn't feel like you have to do it! You should be able to easily make gil doing what you like and find people who will sell you the crafted and gathered products you want.

I know many players who make lots of gil doing what they like. They don't craft or gather.

Sorry, I don't believe that players should be able to make gil by AFKing at the Limsa Aetheryte. If you want to make gil, do something productive to earn it.

My very first example is of one person locking up the MB on an essential item, preventing suppliers and customers from matchmaking.

There are no essential items that can only be acquired from the MB. You're already twisting things

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

There are no essential items that can only be acquired from the MB. You're already twisting things

Raiders very much have essential supplies. You don't have to take my word for it, go ahead and ask Thoughts Per Second or some similar top static if they would go without food, potions, or crafted gear.

And what is a raider to do when they want 3 food and the MB is blocked up, shout in Limsa? Commissioning such a small quantity is obviously unreasonable for both sides. (And yes, there are people who clear the entire tier week 1 in PF.)

I know many players who make lots of gil doing what they like. They don't craft or gather.

Then why does every third raider I meet ask me what to grind to sustain the price of their raid supplies? Clearly they're not making much gil doing what they like.

Sorry, I don't believe that players should be able to make gil by AFKing at the Limsa Aetheryte. If you want to make gil, do something productive to earn it.

You're the one twisting things and trying to put words in my mouth. How could you miss that the opening picture is the start of the virtual walk? (Where on Hydaelyn would it start other than the main market hub?)

[Jojoya]

Raiders very much have essential supplies. You don't have to take my word for it, go ahead and ask Thoughts Per Second or some similar top static if they would go without food, potions, or crafted gear.

And what is a raider to do when they want 3 food and the MB is blocked up, shout in Limsa? Commissioning such a small quantity is obviously unreasonable for both sides. (And yes, there are people who clear the entire tier week 1 in PF.)



Then why does every third raider I meet ask me what to grind to sustain the price of their raid supplies? Clearly they're not making much gil doing what they like.



You're the one twisting things and trying to put words in my mouth. How could you miss that the opening picture is the start of the virtual walk? (Where on Hydaelyn would it start other than the main market hub?)

Those supplies don't have to be sold through the marketboard. You're confusing the marketboard with crafting.

I used to sell to raiders direct instead of through the marketboard. I could sell to them cheap that way (didn't want my cheap stuff being bought and relisted by another player for profit) and neither of us had to worry about marketboard tax.

Raiders make a considerable amount of gil though they'll never tell you that. Like most people, they're looking to pay less for what they want and so they're not about to talk about how much gil they have.

You're the one who said

You should be able to easily make gil doing what you like

There's a crazy number of people who like AFKing at the Limsa Aetheryte. I'm surprised you've never noticed them since you're complaining about people blocking your way to the MB (even though you can easily pop into a housing ward and get to a marketboard in those empty zones much easier).

Your initial post seemed to be the based around the idea that the only way to make gil is to craft and sell things on the MB. That's just flat out wrong. It's a very good way to make gil but it is not the only way.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

Those supplies don't have to be sold through the marketboard. ...

I used to sell to raiders direct instead of through the marketboard. I could sell to them cheap that way (didn't want my cheap stuff being bought and relisted by another player for profit) and neither of us had to worry about marketboard tax.

I'm sorry, was I insufficiently clear in my first example, or did you not read it? How is a raider supposed to find a crafter for a direct sale when they're in a Party Finder party that might fill at any moment? They can't join another Party Finder listing, they can't wait around, and previously they couldn't World Visit either. To the MB it is!

You're confusing the marketboard with crafting.

My second example is purely about the new player experience of learning crafting. So is my sixth with a broader scope over crafting and gathering, including hearing from Free Trial players who cannot trade at all. My fourth and tenth examples are about commission crafting, done off the MB. My eighth example even covers the experience of combat players running treasure maps.

Further, my first two problem areas are likewise not about the MB.

How is this confusing the MB with crafting?

(continued below)

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

(continued from above)

You're the one who said "You should be able to easily make gil doing what you like". There's a crazy number of people who like AFKing at the Limsa Aetheryte.

Why are you glossing over all those systems problems by framing it as purely between crafting and AFKing? Are you trying to argue against the stupidest-sounding possible position instead of my actual points?

You're the one who jumped from

If you don't enjoy crafting or gathering, you shouldn't feel like you have to do it!

to

Sorry, I don't believe that players should be able to make gil by AFKing at the Limsa Aetheryte.

Or are you selecting only the personal experiences that suit you to gloss over the problems? You said

I know many players who make lots of gil doing what they like. They don't craft or gather.

yet you've made replies all over threads like the ongoing market botting thread, constantly dismissing those player experiences. Clearly you know that there are plenty of unhappy players.

I titled my post "A Place for Everyone" for a reason. "Some" or even "many" is not "everyone". (And don't go on about accommodating bots or RMT - you know what I mean!)

The people who just want to AFK or chat in Limsa already have their place just fine - gil is not so much as helpful for that activity, so they are not bothered by not earning any. I'm advocating for the players who don't have their places: the sprouts trained out of learning to craft and gather, the map runners, the new commission crafters, the players promised noncombat systems as deep as combat and not getting them... raiders are merely one obvious example, since raiding has the greatest practical need for crafted items while producing next to no tradable outputs.

(continued below)

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

(continued from above)

you're complaining about people blocking your way to the MB

I made no such complaint. The MB locking I noted in my first example was of one person putting up 100 listings of the same item at bulk prices, blocking the listing search results for any non-bulk stacks regardless of physical access to the board.

(And I know where my "Target Nearest NPC or Object" keybind is, so it doesn't matter whether players are standing by the board. I'm surprised you haven't learned that it makes player model congestion irrelevant, since you're so focused on AFK players. It's such a commonly given piece of advice for any time player models are densely packed...)

If you didn't read my post, that's one thing, but don't assume the contents without reading. There's a modern proverb: "When you assume, you make an a** out of u and me." So if you'd like to have a real discussion, please read what I wrote so we can stop having such misunderstandings.

[Jojoya]

So if you'd like to have a real discussion, please read what I wrote so we can stop having such misunderstandings.

I did read what you wrote. I disagree with it.

Shall we start from scratch? Here's your original post:

In this time between Shadowbringers and Endwalker, come walk with me and see how crafting and gathering are faring.

TL;DR

- If you don't enjoy crafting or gathering, you shouldn't feel like you have to do it! You should be able to easily make gil doing what you like and find people who will sell you the crafted and gathered products you want. The hidden Holy Trinity is crafter, gatherer, and customer.
- If you do take up crafting and/or gathering, you should be welcomed by a system as easy to pick up and hard to master as combat, with something for every skill level throughout the process.

No one needs to feel like they have to craft or gather. There are plenty of other ways to make gil in the game and purchase the items they want. There are only 2 types of content that do not reward gil - Gold Saucer and PvP. I'd actually like to see SE add in ways for PvP to earn gil for those who focus on PvP, such as selling the furnishing purchased with Wolf Marks on the MB similar to how we can sell most furnishings purchased with GC seals.

Crafter/gatherer/marketboard is not a Holy Trinity.

Crafting and gathering are extremely easy to pick up for those who are interested in doing so. Just like combat jobs, if you level as intended instead of trying to skip instantly to max level, you will learn how to craft and gather. Just like combat jobs if you're not good at figuring out what to do, there are plenty of online guides to help.

There's profit to be made from crafting/gathering at every skill level.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

No one needs to feel like they have to craft or gather. There are plenty of other ways to make gil in the game and purchase the items they want. There are only 2 types of content that do not reward gil - Gold Saucer and PvP. I'd actually like to see SE add in ways for PvP to earn gil for those who focus on PvP, such as selling the furnishing purchased with Wolf Marks on the MB similar to how we can sell most furnishings purchased with GC seals.

Then why do I constantly hear from people saying they feel forced to craft and gather? Whether to repair their own gear in raids or to make gil, I get that complaint on a regular basis. You still seem to be ignoring plenty of players, including raiders not making any gil from raiding without selling carries.

Crafter/gatherer/marketboard is not a Holy Trinity.

I said "customer", not "marketboard". And it's three roles that each need the others to function - what else would you call it? Sure, sometimes multiple can be fulfilled by the same person, but that's just as true of combat; witness everything from solo and BLU content to Eureka and Bozja.

Crafting and gathering are extremely easy to pick up for those who are interested in doing so. Just like combat jobs, if you level as intended instead of trying to skip instantly to max level, you will learn how to craft and gather. Just like combat jobs if you're not good at figuring out what to do, there are plenty of online guides to help.

There's profit to be made from crafting/gathering at every skill level.

I've literally already linked you tons of examples otherwise, ranging from players earnestly trying and failing to pick up crafting and gathering, to those turned away at endgame from lack of profit - and even turned away from combat endgames due to crafting and gathering problems!

Stop cherry-picking just the player experiences you want to hear and dismissing everyone else. You may be having a good time, but that doesn't mean everyone else is.