Sharlayan origins and the Endwalker Trailer

[Vyrerus]

I hope

No bit here. Shadowbringers was about laying the truth of the world bare. You just happen to not like the truth, because it's hard to deal with.

You can be reductionist towards the truth if you'd like. The truth is that everyone on every shard is real, but they're living on the borrowed souls of those who were wasted by Hydaelyn. Those same souls still get to live after Rejoinings.

The events of the game can be boiled down in any number of ways, and a boiled down reading will always be far off. Just because you boil down what I say while also applying your own perspective to it doesn't make it any less the truth. /shrug

And I have finished Baldesion Arsenal. I've had the Demi-Ozma mount since before Shadowbringers launched. I just didn't care about Ejika's resurrection, and subsequently forgot about it. I'll link the recording of my Proto-Ozma clear if you'd like. Might have to, considering you've got horse blinders on.

[GoldStarz]

I forgot to mention G'raha. He doesn't have the Echo, but is 8x rejoined which could only happen if he were a sundered Ancient.

Because the Ancients weren't the only people sundered? There was also the new life that was created after the laws of the star were rewritten, brand new souls that were created from seemingly nothing.

No bit here. Shadowbringers was about laying the truth of the world bare. You just happen to not like the truth, because it's hard to deal with.

You can be reductionist towards the truth if you'd like. The truth is that everyone on every shard is real, but they're living on the borrowed souls of those who were wasted by Hydaelyn. Those same souls still get to live after Rejoinings.

The events of the game can be boiled down in any number of ways, and a boiled down reading will always be far off. Just because you boil down what I say while also applying your own perspective to it doesn't make it any less the truth. /shrug

I mean you do realize that Shadowbringers is pretty much all about how the Ascians' worldview is flawed, right? Even if you regard Hydaelyn negatively, preventing calamity is still the act of saving countless people, the fact that someone's soul becomes a little bit denser doesn't change the fact that millions of people died to make that happen. To "lay the truth of the world bare", it's genocide. Plain and simple.

[Theodric]

I mean you do realize that Shadowbringers is pretty much all about how the Ascians' worldview is flawed, right? Even if you regard Hydaelyn negatively, preventing calamity is still the act of saving countless people, the fact that someone's soul becomes a little bit denser doesn't change the fact that millions of people died to make that happen. To "lay the truth of the world bare", it's genocide. Plain and simple.

You're free to read it as such if you so choose, though that isn't the default assumption nor is anybody obligated to read into it as such. It was framed as a battle of like wills between two heroes each shouldering the burdens of their respective people. They could not reach a compromise due to opposing goals coming at the expense of each other's people, though such is common in times of war and strife.

I think it's worth bringing this up again:

I do believe that this should add further clarification on the subject when it comes to the intent of the writers, especially the last paragraph:

Q: With each new expansion new themes are introduced and are focused on. How does the team decide on which themes to focus on with each new expansion?

Naoki Yoshida: The major themes for the expansion would be first conveyed from me as the game’s director to the development team. Although it is somewhat difficult to describe my personal decision-making process it could be summarised as [requiring a sense of] surprise and fun. This contains a dual meaning in that I assess whether as developers ourselves we would encounter surprises while enjoying the production process, at the same time as considering whether the story of the expansion would be exciting and fun for the players. In the last expansion Shadowbringers, I had thought that players must have grown tired of being referred to as a Warrior of Light. I also came up with the idea of reversing the conventional notion of light equating to justice or something holy and darkness equating to evil or something bad to generate a sense of surprise.

The current state of global affairs is incredibly complex and simple two-dimensional theories of good/bad from ancient times can no longer quantify this world we live in. As such, a large factor [that contributed to the selection of these themes] is that I thought I could cultivate new values and a new sense of realisation within myself by changing perspective and carefully considering the other party’s arguments in regard to a given event. Half of the time these things are born from one’s intuition and flashes of inspiration. I guessed as much but it really is hard to explain. (laughs)

Source:https://www.impulsegamer.com/naoki-y...vs-lore-story/

[Lauront]

And another...

DAILY STAR - Talking of the story, what was your personal favourite while going through the expansion?

Yoshida - That’s a tough question, being in the development team, I’m involved with lots of adjustment and tweaking during creations, so I see all the cut-scenes and while in development I give feedback on if a cut-scene should be bringing up the tension in certain parts. I had to play Shadowbringers four times, so it’s hard to have one favourite part.

If I needed to pick one, there is a scene after you complete a dungeon in a cave where you see the murals that is the dream that the ancients saw which is about the war between Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Emet-Selch takes the whole party to the cave and talks about the war and Y’sthola, and other NPCs were surprised by his revelation about what had happened. This struck really hard to me.

This scene is really underlining the story of Shadowbringers. Everyone is in a different position, the view of winners will be different to those that have lost, and the truth that they may tell will also be different. There is not really any point in arguing who is right or wrong but what is really important is to understand that there are so many views, and we need to accept it; how can we move forward by us understanding each other.

That was more just for Shadowbringers, but it’s also a common theme through Eorzea and FFXIV. What Emet-Selch was expressing is his view that ‘this is my opinion not requiring approval from anyone because this is what I believe’. He doesn’t even reject what Haydelin is saying, he just accepts it. What he expressed in that scene was ‘how great ancients are and the deep understanding they have with people who have different opinions to themselves.

Source.

[Rulakir]

Because the Ancients weren't the only people sundered? There was also the new life that was created after the laws of the star were rewritten, brand new souls that were created from seemingly nothing.

I wouldn't know where to begin to backtrack to in order to double check this, so all I'll say is that isn't how I understood the story. I was led to believe only Ancients have immortal souls capable of reincarnation and the 'new life' return to the aether upon death to be fashioned into something new. Combined with the emotional reactions of characters without the Echo to the star shower and I reasoned it's possible to be a sundered Ancient without the Echo. I'm open to evidence that states otherwise, but that's where my mind is on that point.

[Cilia]

Some fans are just particularly passionate about the game. There's nothing mentally deficient about that; they're just very invested in the story. Players identify with characters like them, they get attached to other characters, etc. Saying "it doesn't matter because it's fiction" comes across as callous, and saying things like "they care too much" or "are incapable of separating fiction from reality" is just flat-out insulting. I don't think passionate fans being passionate about their pastime is wrong or bad, or a sign of mental impairment.

Why does VII's Cloud enjoy such enduring popularity? Why do people care so much about what happens to him? He's just a fictional character.

I mean you do realize that Shadowbringers is pretty much all about how the Ascians' worldview is flawed, right? Even if you regard Hydaelyn negatively, preventing calamity is still the act of saving countless people, the fact that someone's soul becomes a little bit denser doesn't change the fact that millions of people died to make that happen. To "lay the truth of the world bare", it's genocide. Plain and simple.

I don't think it was about "laying the truth of the world bare" or "how the Ascians' worldview is flawed," rather it was about trying to understand people who are different from you. We didn't understand the Ascians' motives, only their goals, and found out they had very understandable reasons for the things they do.

Everybody ultimately wants to create the best future, but their vision for that future is different. Unfortunately not all differences can be reconciled, and understanding others isn't the same thing as agreeing with them.

[Vyrerus]

I mean you do realize

You clearly haven't engaged with the thought experiment that is the in world ethics of what's actually happened due to the Sundering.

In this setting the statements:

"Ardbert is dead." and "Ardbert still lives." are both true.

Every person who has died in a Rejoining is dead, but they live on literally by becoming a part of the Source's Lifestream. They either go on living by becoming part of a living person, or they join with the rest of whatever soul they are part and parcel to, in the aetherial realm.

In this setting, physical death is not the end, basically. To stop a Rejoining is to say that a temporary life is more important than the infinite soul that propels it, that imbues in it the qualities of life we hold most dear.

Ergo, the only way to actually commit genocide is to destroy souls completely (or destroy everything they could inhabit).

That doesn't mean it's painless. That doesn't mean that it's right. But as it stands it is better to take the actions necessary to heal those still living souls which have been damaged for 12,000 years. To right the great wrong done against them.

And the proof is there. We could not hope to succeed against Emet-selch even with 8/14 soul shards. We needed another shard of our soul to stand up to contest him. To save what was left of a single shard, we required intervention from the future and the equivalent of technically two further Rejoinings. We had to be 9/14 and rely on the Calling of the Exarch, and then had to contest him with the Auracite, all of the Scions with us, and the Lightwarden's aether.

We literally have to accept the fact that we needed the Ascians to succeed, restore our souls, in order to give weight to our will.

All I saw in the story was the Scions bitterly accept this truth, but being forced to ignore it for their own sake. What came after were pleas of emotion.

It is a bitter battle which becomes a weight that the victor may never unencumber themselves from. Such is what it means to wage war against your own kind.

[Rulakir]

In this setting, physical death is not the end, basically. To stop a Rejoining is to say that a temporary life is more important than the infinite soul that propels it, that imbues in it the qualities of life we hold most dear.

Ergo, the only way to actually commit genocide is to destroy souls completely (or destroy everything they could inhabit).

This is my thought process as well. I thought the Scions' last pleas to Emet were weak because their only argument was essentially that an ~80 year life span is as or more important than an immortal soul. Meanwhile, the Scions actually are engaging in 'permanently' (as far as we know) killing the immortal souls of the Ascians, which seems especially egregious knowing that they could be reincarnated into someone like Gaia.

It's surprising to me that more people aren't bothered at the notion of having a sundered soul. It's not quite the same, but I imagine it'd be like if I told someone they have a long lost twin. The amount of people who wouldn't care about that would be extremely small, most would immediately wish to seek them out. Every non-Ascian in FFXIV's universe is just like, "This is fine."