Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Kaurhz]

Yea I completely agree with this. Dungeons with crazy secrets and kooky mechanics can be fun sure, but not when you're doing your Roulette. These things are best relegated to the Gold Saucer where it's a little less serious and I potentially can spend free time there if I choose.

Believe it or not folks, some of the people playing this game have lives outside of it and don't want to have to treat it as a second job. If you're into a video game being a second job you can certainly treat FF14 that way but don't try to make the devs force that on the rest of us. If you absolutely wanna play an MMO that's a second job there's a ton of Korean MMO's out there, and if those are not sadistic enough for your masochist tastes then there's Eve Online: Excel Spreadsheets The Multiplayer Game.

To be honest I'm not even talking the extent or issues of 'second jobs', and nor do I think that would be a concern, unless you quite literally had to do it on a routine basis for whatever arbitrary reason they would decide.

I just have a greater issue in the fact I strongly believe that people want this stuff, but want it to be without the consequences of incorporating it in the first place. With more difficult mechanics comes an even greater wipe factor. Similarly the inclusion of more personal responsibility comes the greater chance for wiping. People don't like wiping to something they cannot control. If it were the case that people wanted more difficult regular content, or content that you could simply just not burn down, then I would argue that people wouldn't be crying because the potential of wiping in Aurum Vale is pretty good with a sprout group. Similarly people wouldn't be crying that Toto-Rak has slime that deliberately slows a player. Nor would people be crying that Amaurot takes a while, nor would they be overjoyed when it was shifted out of expert roulette. Granted you could argue that these people aren't necessarily always the same. But in many cases they are the exact same groups of people. Or at the very least would be the same group of people that complains about players not conforming to a baseline.

TL;DR Harder content has a greater chance for wiping, and a lot of people want the former without the latter because it is inconvenient which simply won't happen, ever. This place would quickly become a cesspool of people complaining if they got harder dungeon content which presented the chance of wiping.

[DPZ2]

It was hard enough getting a group to do the optional 'hidden boss' for the alchemy profession quest in WoW ... what makes anyone think that the 'fun' instance with multiple pathing and optional bosses is going to devolve into anything except running through a single corridor to the end boss during a roulette?

[Axxion]

It was hard enough getting a group to do the optional 'hidden boss' for the alchemy profession quest in WoW ... what makes anyone think that the 'fun' instance with multiple pathing and optional bosses is going to devolve into anything except running through a single corridor to the end boss during a roulette?

i mean they could do it like how they did palace of dead or something. It would break up the same old for a bit. And give out different rewards for it. There was a quest in WKC1/2 where you gathered different items and once you grab said items then the boss changed.

or take from 1.0( from what i heard) The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak had a different final boss when taking a different path

Add weekly challenges to encourage people to take the path less travel.

[Jirah]

It was hard enough getting a group to do the optional 'hidden boss' for the alchemy profession quest in WoW ... what makes anyone think that the 'fun' instance with multiple pathing and optional bosses is going to devolve into anything except running through a single corridor to the end boss during a roulette?

which is what we are doing now, I dont understand this side of the argument. Give us more options this will literally not hurt the casual crowd what so ever

[Axxion]

which is what we are doing now, I dont understand this side of the argument. Give us more options this will literally not hurt the casual crowd what so ever

having more options are bad /s

[FusiaRain]

Shame the first will probably fade away now and never be used again

[Leifei]

You're not wrong OP. It would be nice to see some dungeon mechanics that make the environment or bosses more interactive like the old days.

[Tsumdere]

Shame the first will probably fade away now and never be used again

I think having some content on the First would be much appreciated. The Deep Dungeon could be there as there are multiple places that would be good settings - Ronkan Ruins, Laxen Loft, and Amarout.

[REPROBEAN_CHILD]

which is what we are doing now, I dont understand this side of the argument. Give us more options this will literally not hurt the casual crowd what so ever

having more options are bad /s

If I learned one thing about the FFXIV community, is that players want to get things done as quickly and efficiently as possible. While a dungeon with puzzles is definitely favorable, when players are presented with either choosing dungeons with more effort vs ones that are easier to complete, they're going to choose the latter. The biggest proof of this is whenever there's a Moogle Tome Event, almost everyone chooses the same 1 or 2 instances to get the most number of tomes in the shortest amount of time. Varity be damned. So, while making dungeons with branching pathways and puzzles is good during your first playthrough, running it daily, getting sick of it, then abandoning it for easier dungeons, is just a waste of resources. I see the scenario with that:

1st run: "Wow, that was a really fun dungeon. We had to work together, get the right number of items, and figure out how to find the correct pathway to the bosses. I really like the variety of options here."
100th run: "They need to give us an option to opt out of this part. I don't feel like carrying every group and this place EASILY could've taken 10 minutes to finish with just 1 pathway. I'm sick of these puzzles."

or

*Enters duty*
"Oh, it's this place."
*Leaves duty*

[EverQuest]

Style > substance is the way to go.