Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[MercuryD]

Here's the thing, those memes? They're memes. Jokes. Jabs. Laughs. At the LAUNCH of ShB SMN due to egi assaults being oGCDs which was a nightmare. After that change the "carpal tunnel" thing became a meme, nothing more.

Summoner has been a very popular and well performing job (depending on patch...) since HW so the mechanics obviously work or else the job would be unplayable. It's number of players isn't abysmal like you claim. Some people don't like the play style and that's cool but the job is, for this iteration, still fun.

[Kolsykol]

The problem is the individual arguments presented by the fans of old SMN have been picked apart time and time again. They all boil down to "imo."As seen on the first page of this thread where I went through some of their highlights and opinions I found particularly baffling.

Failing to listen to "what people say" is how you end up with a Blizzard-level situation where devs routinely ignore feedback until the absolute last minute in attempt to win back the trust that was already betrayed. I find myself quite happy in this game where the devs listen to what the general playerbase is saying even if it takes them a while or if they choose to work in total silence.

In any case it was a common sentiment that FFXIV's old Summoner failed on a mechanical and thematic level. Positionals used to really suck too if I remember correctly, where if you failed to do them the combo would break. Should the devs have ignored the general playerbase then as well?

Ah but wait-that would have taken away their beloved "complexity" that were really just horrendous mechanics in the eyes of everyone else at the time.

I've played MNK since ARR I know a thing or two about being ignored.
Just because you don't get what you want tho doesn't mean that they're not listening.

Attacks also used to be able to miss entirely ( which made it extra bad with combos ).
I'd say that it's fair to assume that the overall consensus there was far greater against it than the opinions here on SMN.
Not to mention much more fundamental and affecting more Jobs at the same time.

I think that everyone who doesn't get what they want feel like they're not being listened to, I rly don't think that there is a widespread consensus about this tho as you're saying.

[Roda]

words

What is the point of engaging in conversation if you have no intention of making your point understood? You plug your ears to anyone, and expect everyone to just believe your claims without needing any explanation. You try to state your position appealing to emotion with your own sense of betrayal, but you won't afford others the same consideration. You directly engage with those who don't share your experience, but refuse to show sympathy when they respond, and instead revel in their sense of loss.

What is the point of your participation in this discussion if it you aren't here to have a back and forth conversation? Are you really just here to find some kind of twisted enjoyment at other people's hurt?

[Rolder50]

I enjoy how this thread has turned into everyone vs aveyond; the ratio of likes between posters says it all.

[aveyond-dreams]

It is quite clear that the emotional tilt is coming more from one direction than the other. Me stating the facts does not mean that I am trying to appeal to anyone's emotions. I'm just telling you what's going on outside this...bubble for lack of a better phrase. Again it is the reader that assigns tone to my words, so if you choose to view me as the villain taking away affliction warlock summoner, that is entirely not my problem.

Those who prefer an actual summoner are simply not going to convinced that a poison mage with widely criticized controls and gameplay flow is better than the 6.0 iteration. If they choose to feel sympathetic to those attached to the past version of the class, that is their choice. But they are not entitled to such sympathy, so if someone does not care, they just don't.

In any case there is more evidence stacked against the old summoner than the new, however much people decide to not engage with it does not change the fact that it is there, and has been for the past 8 years. It was very curious seeing all of the expressive takes and enthusiastic defenses of the job, much to the bewilderment of others who do not share such ideas. If I am being told to disregard the thousands of upvotes/likes/retweets/any and all other metrics then there is no pretending that the like ratio here means anything more.

This conversation dragged on for two weeks more than it should have. Again I implore those who feel so strongly about their job to spend some more time with it before the servers go down for maintenance. For 8 years this path was followed until nothing more could be done. To have been in the devs' favor for so long is objectively a tremendous accomplishment, and one you should celebrate. If only classes like Dark Knight or Scholar could say the same.

[rewd]

Me stating the facts

You mean the facts we have been begging you to state only for you to run away like a scared chicken as a result?

[Jirah]

I’ll just say SMN in EW looks remedial but it’s pretty which is simply enough for some people, worked on MCH and DRK and the trend continues to burn jobs alive

[MagiusNecros]

You mean the facts we have been begging you to state only for you to run away like a scared chicken as a result?

It really is a post 2006 Gamefaqs move. Pointless argument nitpicking subjective things and when asked for a rational rebuke stating facts none are to be found and the result becomes a poor game of semantics and leads to either a change of subject or 5 pages of backpedaling.

Best let them walk home to Gridania and move on.

[Kolsykol]

I enjoy how this thread has turned into everyone vs aveyond; the ratio of likes between posters says it all.

Aveyond is allowed to feel how Aveyond feels about SMN.
I just take issue with this entire notion that because you can find some people on Tumblr saying something that it means anything.

[Mansion]

I’ll just say SMN in EW looks remedial but it’s pretty which is simply enough for some people, worked on MCH and DRK and the trend continues to burn jobs alive

I won't deny your point about DRK and MCH which lost some complexity in their redesign (although arguably, most of the complexity came from clunky job design and mechanics), or even wome other jobs which lost some complexity / skill ceiling over the course of extensions.
Here SMN has lost DoTs management mainly, in profit of elemental summons which do seem to be a bit more meaningful and deep than keeping DoTs up. I won't say we lost Demi management as we were mostly trying to avoid bugs and ghosting. I think it's a bit different, especially as the rework hasn't changed half of the job, and focused on its downtime.
SMN has been my main since I started FFXIV, and in principle I'm not sure this version of the job speaks to me, but I don't think it's made easier (or ruined) from its previous iterations.