The WoL reawakened in Endwalker?

[Setesh45]

Everything that follows is a spoiler for anyone who hasn't finished Shadowbringers yet.

So as we know, the Ascians have sometimes noticed the WoL's soul being someone clearly very important in their original society. With several of the other worlds (reflections of the source) gone, and Ardbert's soul merging with the WoL's soul I think it means we are very close to becoming "complete" our fragmented soul restored.

The WoL's soul is now in theory 9 parts restored from the final 14 I believe (final 14... FFXIV... a coincidence? )
Source + 13 reflections, 8 calamities/rejoinings.

It makes me wonder what that means for the WoL, I get the feeling that in Endwalker we may actually reawaken to some extent or full extent, becoming in a way an Ascian/Ancient as our soul nears the complete restoration.

Anyone else feels this is where the story is headed? Were there any hints?

[Cleretic]

This is a theory I've seen come up several times, and I hate it in large part because, while I disagree vehemently with it, it's not a matter of factual evidence or refutation, it's a question of story direction, specifically based on an angle that we don't know where we're 'supposed' to land just yet, because so far the story has provided two angles.

Basically it comes down to how you think the story is trying to look at past lives; specifically, the past lives of the Ancients and the Ascians. There are two ways this could go, and both of them have circumstantial evidence in favor of that being the overall outlook right now.

First of all: You could take the stance that seems to be held by 5.3 (or at least the people in it), particularly epitomized in the views of Hythlodaeus and Emet-Selch (if they are in fact different), that past lives are important; that the WoL being Azem is a Big Undeniable Thing that must be honored, respected, and lived up to. If this is the overall direction we're meant to take this, then... frankly, the WoL becoming more of a 'complete soul' is the right end goal.

But, the alternative: You could instead take the stance that's held by the Eden storyline, particularly epitomized by Gaia herself. This essentially frames the views of Hythlodaeus and Emet-Selch--also held by Mitron with focus on Gaia instead of the WoL--as incorrect and unhealthy. Gaia is not the Loghrif he loved, she is a different person with her own life, loves and feelings, and forcing her into the seat of Loghrif is inhuman and evil. If this is instead the direction we're meant to take, then the WoL 'going Ancient' should actually be considered something of a fail state; the Ancients are dead and gone, and must be moved on from.

I know which of these two I prefer; not only do I think the WoL becoming a literal superhuman is boring, I ultimately think that the angle shown in the Eden questline is a stronger story. But... ultimately right now, it could go either way, it just comes down to which of the two outlooks put forward in the 5.x patches is closer to the intended direction for Endwalker; is Emet right, or are Ryne and Gaia?

[Setesh45]

This is a theory I've seen come up several times, and I hate it in large part because, while I disagree vehemently with it, it's not a matter of factual evidence or refutation, it's a question of story direction, specifically based on an angle that we don't know where we're 'supposed' to land just yet, because so far the story has provided two angles.

I don't think it's going to be like that at all.

What Mitron was doing was forced/fake re-awakening, using the memory crystals to force Gaia to re-awaken as a sundered Ascian, this indeed in unnatural, pretty much rewriting the person's mind regardless of her soul's state.

However, what is happening to the WoL and every individual in the Source in fact is a more natural process. The soul is just returning to its original form, piece by piece, this does not include memories, not without the echo.
This means every single individual in the source is much stronger than it used to be prior to the rejoinings = the WoL is not OP because everyone in the source is OP.

Currently the WoL is one soul ahead of everyone else in the Source due to us halting the 8th calamity from happening, but Ardberd's soul joining the WoL's soul willingly. This gives us a slight edge over others.
We also posses the echo which makes us different from others, it gives us more control, possibly access to memories long lost.

What we also do know is that once all souls in the source have been restored the Ascians plan to sacrifice every living being in the source to Zodiark in order to restore the Ancients as they were during the peak of their civilization.

This means the restoration of the soul does not equal changing the individual back to being an Ancient or Ascian. Not on its own. It just unlocks your full potential. This is where the echo might come in, giving us access to our past life memories.

If our target will be the "destruction" of Zodiark, I think we will need every bit of power available to us. Present or past.

[filkry]

I don't think it's going to be like that at all.

What Mitron was doing was forced/fake re-awakening, using the memory crystals to force Gaia to re-awaken as a sundered Ascian, this indeed in unnatural, pretty much rewriting the person's mind regardless of her soul's state.

However, what is happening to the WoL and every individual in the Source in fact is a more natural process. The soul is just returning to its original form, piece by piece, this does not include memories, not without the echo.
This means every single individual in the source is much stronger than it used to be prior to the rejoinings = the WoL is not OP because everyone in the source is OP.

Currently the WoL is one soul ahead of everyone else in the Source due to us halting the 8th calamity from happening, but Ardberd's soul joining the WoL's soul willingly. This gives us a slight edge over others.
We also posses the echo which makes us different from others, it gives us more control, possibly access to memories long lost.

What we also do know is that once all souls in the source have been restored the Ascians plan to sacrifice every living being in the source to Zodiark in order to restore the Ancients as they were during the peak of their civilization.

This means the restoration of the soul does not equal changing the individual back to being an Ancient or Ascian. Not on its own. It just unlocks your full potential. This is where the echo might come in, giving us access to our past life memories.

If our target will be the "destruction" of Zodiark, I think we will need every bit of power available to us. Present or past.

Do we know for a fact that everyone on the Source has all their soul fragments from rejoined shards? I'm still under the impression WoL is relatively unique in that respect (with maybe Godbert and Zenos as well :P). My assumption has been when shards are rejoined, the soul fragments go back to the lifestream, not directly to the corresponding person on the source. Based on 5.0 MSQ meetings between WoL/Ardbert, even very close proximity is not enough to automatically merge a sundered soul.

I like the idea that there may even be multiple fragments of the same soul wandering The Source simultaneously, not yet having met by chance to further completion. The WoL's unique state would come by some mix of fate, and their unique power of gathering others to their side.

[Setesh45]

Do we know for a fact that everyone on the Source has all their soul fragments from rejoined shards? I'm still under the impression WoL is relatively unique in that respect (with maybe Godbert and Zenos as well :P). My assumption has been when shards are rejoined, the soul fragments go back to the lifestream, not directly to the corresponding person on the source. Based on 5.0 MSQ meetings between WoL/Ardbert, even very close proximity is not enough to automatically merge a sundered soul.

I like the idea that there may even be multiple fragments of the same soul wandering The Source simultaneously, not yet having met by chance to further completion. The WoL's unique state would come by some mix of fate, and their unique power of gathering others to their side.

I think the unique part in case of the WoL comes simply from the echo and the connection to Hydaelin.

Everyone with the echo is special. Even Zenos possesses the Echo or the artificial version called the eyes of resonance, the same as Fordola.

Every calamity is said to be the result of the joiining, I think it's pretty clear the soul-shards really do rejoin the source soul. Nothing I have ever read in our out of the game suggested otherwise.

[Setesh45]

I do think it'll probably go in this direction too!

Especially when I read the interview with Yoshi-P commenting on why Zenos is reaper, this quote makes a pretty interesting implication: “Zeno’s only friend is the Warrior of Light so in that respect maybe his avatar is some sort of variation of our Warrior of Light." I wouldn't be surprised if his avatar is the shard of our soul from the 13th, the Void; this seems to be what Yoshi-P is implying anyway, (could be intentionally misleading us though!) so another re-joining of our soul would likely come from this if my speculation is correct. Especially as there is no way for us to re-join with that shard otherwise as far as we currently know.

I think as far as awakening goes, we'll probably get a re-joining power up, maybe master the echo finally and get more information about Azem's decisions etc. but any more (becoming something akin to an ascian/ancient of some description) would possibly alienate players from their characters. Plus I think Azem's example of venturing the path less travelled matches with our current wol's personality in MSQ anyway, and us following their lead instead of becoming them is pretty in keeping with Answers lyrics "Look to those who walk before, to lead those who walk after". This is just my tin foil speculating though and I think it could go either way, (as well as ways we couldn't even know!) but whichever way it goes I'm sure the writers will make it very compelling and interesting!

Oh yeah, I really like the idea with the 13th.

That would explain how we could in theory reach the full soul restoration, assuming all the other remaining reflections of the source get "destroyed". Which is possible, the sky was on fire in the trailer and plenty of bad stuff was happening, that very well may mark another calamity, another rejoining. It's almost clear the WoL won't become an Ancient, like you said it would alienate the character from the players, I believe it will be more like our past self guiding our new self without taking over. However this is where I expect a twist. Something very unpredictable will happen, otherwise I feel like it would be too simple.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm fully expecting something different.

The WoL will indeed become fully powered, regaining access to old memories. However in the end will sacrifice their power and everything they are to save the world, because they find this world worth saving. They will get depowered, but they won't lose the memories or experiences. Everybody else, however...I won't be surprised if the action effectively erases the WoL's true identity out of everybody's memories by doing this, becoming a figure of legend. They will still be remembered by face for what "normal things" they did for people, but not the heavier handed stuff.

Example, the people of Ishgard will remember the PC for having helped end the War as one of the "WoL's allies", but won't be remembered as the WoL. You'll still be known in Azim Steppe because they don't see you as the WoL. You'll still be remembered by the job trainers because you being the WoL came up very little. You'll be remembered for Bozja. You however will NOT be remembered for being a primal slayer, for killing Thordon, for defeating Shinryu and Zenos, etc etc. All the big WoL things you will not be associated with in people's minds.

[Veloran]

But, the alternative: You could instead take the stance that's held by the Eden storyline, particularly epitomized by Gaia herself. This essentially frames the views of Hythlodaeus and Emet-Selch--also held by Mitron with focus on Gaia instead of the WoL--as incorrect and unhealthy. Gaia is not the Loghrif he loved, she is a different person with her own life, loves and feelings, and forcing her into the seat of Loghrif is inhuman and evil. If this is instead the direction we're meant to take, then the WoL 'going Ancient' should actually be considered something of a fail state; the Ancients are dead and gone, and must be moved on from.

In the Eden storyline, Mitron's actions were framed as bad because he was trying to forcibly overwrite Gaia's memories, erasing the ones from her current life and replacing them with the old ones. This isn't the same as the situation with WoL, where Emet-Selch asks WoL to remember and has WoL given the stone to aid in this, while also accepting the validity of WoL as more than simply a broken husk of a soul. Moreover, at the end of the Eden storyline Gaia says that she does want to be with Mitron again in the future - She doesn't just move on from the connection they shared, she just doesn't want to lose the new connections she's made along the way.

[redheadturk]

I'm fully expecting something different.

The WoL will indeed become fully powered, regaining access to old memories. However in the end will sacrifice their power and everything they are to save the world, because they find this world worth saving. They will get depowered, but they won't lose the memories or experiences. Everybody else, however...I won't be surprised if the action effectively erases the WoL's true identity out of everybody's memories by doing this, becoming a figure of legend. They will still be remembered by face for what "normal things" they did for people, but not the heavier handed stuff.

Example, the people of Ishgard will remember the PC for having helped end the War as one of the "WoL's allies", but won't be remembered as the WoL. You'll still be known in Azim Steppe because they don't see you as the WoL. You'll still be remembered by the job trainers because you being the WoL came up very little. You'll be remembered for Bozja. You however will NOT be remembered for being a primal slayer, for killing Thordon, for defeating Shinryu and Zenos, etc etc. All the big WoL things you will not be associated with in people's minds.

I don't want to see us take a page out of 1.0's book. One of the things XIV did right was having us be the mover and shaker, and not just another cog in the wheel like in WoW. If I didn't want us to be the hero I'd go play WoW.

[atheistcanuck]

I don't want to see us take a page out of 1.0's book. One of the things XIV did right was having us be the mover and shaker, and not just another cog in the wheel like in WoW. If I didn't want us to be the hero I'd go play WoW.

Yeah I think that would upset a lot of people. They did that kind of thing after 1.0 because many players were going to be new players who didn't play 1.0.

As for the idea of us fully rejoining I think that would kind of undermine the point of Shadowbringers that sundered souls have worth as they are and the shards have the right to exist as they are.The most I couldsee happening is us rejoining with our shard from the 13th after beating Zenos, assuming his avatar is actually our 13th shard.

As for recovering og Azem's memories I don't see us recovering all or even most of their memories but maybe we will have to figure out what they were doing after they left during the Final Days to figure out how to deal with whatever caused the Sound in the first plae, since I think we might have to do that.