Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[linayar]

It's statements like that, that make me question which community is the toxic one.

The answer seems to almost always be: whichever side you oppose.

[Izscha]

It's statements like that, that make me question which community is the toxic one.

You're obviously the good guy, and the one that you dont like are the toxic bad guys.
I live by this and it works great !

[Michieltjuhh]

Gatekeeping, generalizing, and talking for everyone while completely ignoring the fact Yoshida has made statements talking about how people have noticed dungeons are easier and more streamlined and it is intentional.

I believe the statements were more regarding a streamlined pathing approach. Older dungeons have more of a sandbox element to them with plenty of packs out of the way that aren't required to be killed, while the newer ones follow the same on rails design.

Except it doesn't. Don't conflate the issue with your bias.
Dungeons can and do get more boring especially when the it's the developers intention or they don't care to explore or experiment anymore because they know the formula to make the most people happy.

It has in those that I know of, at least in terms of difficulty. Even in scenarios where they got harder, they never seemed to scale as quickly as player skill did.

Doing old content at minimum Ilevel 3 expansions post is not the same at all as doing it when it was relevant content. So many things have changed since.
Doing ARR dungeons on Sage for instance or any of the new classes since that dungeon was released is not going to provide you any relevant information on what it was like to do them back then, it's a completely different experience outside the song and dance.

You are correct, it's an educated guess based on prior experience from other MMORPGs I've played where I did end up experiencing the content before and after people started getting nostalgic about it. I gave an example of it as well, in what people arguably consider the MMORPG that challenges its players most. Now, it is of course possible that FF14 somehow is that one unique MMORPG where this was different, but I'm sure you can understand why I'm being skeptical, especially with the knowledge that those dungeons of the past were first and foremost still made to be cleared in a pug, albeit after some trial and error.

It's called immersion.

And I am all for that, but any dungeon built around immersion is going to be looked down upon if added to a duty roulette, making it limited accessibility. Once people find themselves in a party with someone who's new while they've done it a plethora of times, you just know conflicts of interest arrive. Main scenario roulette is proof of this: Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium would never be ran and incredibly difficult to access for those on the MSQ if not for the massive experience bonus added to the duty roulette.

And the truth comes out, scared of the big bad toxic boogey man.

I stated others seem to be, not I. I didn't play WoW for 17 years, most of which at a cutting edge level, to then act like I'm afraid of toxicity. If it were up to me, there'd be a challenge mode with leaderboards or mythic+ system in this game.

[Velnora]

"Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium would never be ran and incredibly difficult to access for those on the MSQ if not for the massive experience bonus added to the duty roulette."

Imagine that. Having to bribe players to do something they don't like. It's like having to work a job you hate just so you get a paycheck.

[linayar]

"Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium would never be ran and incredibly difficult to access for those on the MSQ if not for the massive experience bonus added to the duty roulette."

Imagine that. Having to bribe players to do something they don't like. It's like having to work a job you hate just so you get a paycheck.

That said, while it's not ideal, there are plenty of alternatives. So, at the end of the day, for whatever reason, people are saying that content is good enough for the reward it provides, that people still do it even when they could've done some other contents.

[Velnora]

That said, while it's not ideal, there are plenty of alternatives. So, at the end of the day, for whatever reason, people are saying that content is good enough for the reward it provides, that people still do it even when they could've done some other contents.

Usually to afk, lol.

[Nethereal]

I stated others seem to be, not I. I didn't play WoW for 17 years, most of which at a cutting edge level, to then act like I'm afraid of toxicity. If it were up to me, there'd be a challenge mode with leaderboards or mythic+ system in this game.

Your entire post is filled with fair and valid arguments so there's really not much to comment on but I do want to touch on this particular above line.
Rereading that particular section IMO it just wasn't articulated that well.
You didn't differentiate yourself from the group you were referencing in the original post and you reinforced your point with "timers" which I still don't know exactly what you're talking about.
Sorry I jumped to an assumption but with the rest of your original post it was more likely leaning to one side rather than the other.

Edit: I think the "timers" you're talking about are the ones in WoW that are used for certain content. I don't play WoW and it's definitely not something I've seen brought up particularly in this discussion but I do remember them existing.
IMO though if anyone thinks timers are what made WoW toxic they have other issues going on.

[Izscha]

Usually to afk, lol.

Well this roulette does exist so ppl can actually DO this content and not being stuck in queue times for hours, ppl afking in it doesn't change much about it since it's impossible to fail.
It serves its purpose, and the only reason they give so much rewards is that they decided those cutscene were mandatory and they did know that this change will instantly kills this roulette for most players hence the huge reward while you can basically watch youtube or anything on the side and play 5-10 min max out of the 45 min duration of said dungeon.

[Nethereal]

Well this roulette does exist so ppl can actually DO this content and not being stuck in queue times for hours, ppl aking in it doesn't change much about it since it's impossible to fail.
It serves its purpose, and the only reason they give so much rewards is that they decided those cutscene were mandatory and they did know that this change will instantly kills this roulette for most players hence the huge reward while you can basically watch youtube or anything on the side and play 5-10 min max out of the 45 min duration of said dungeon.

MSQ dungeons should never have been a single instance. All they had to do was split it up into 4 different dungeons, put Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4 in the title and then just add a spawn point and an exit after different boss fights then make a quest that unlocks them in order.

Instead they just got lazy made the cs unskippable and bribed the players but they know this.

[linayar]

Usually to afk, lol.

Thankfully, it's at a point where you can have people afk and not be stressed about it, plus it extends the fight, so I'm all for it as I enjoy combat in this game, at all levels.