Ludonarrative Dissonance and the Level of Field Monsters in Norvrandt

[Vyrerus]

So I was on the bird app, and an artist I follow by the handle of Onionoholic was musing about why, "Ardbert and Co have level 50 AF, but Norvrandt's monsters are level 70?"

Most people responded with jokes, glamours, or the same tired line of, "Gameplay and story segregation."

I opted to shitpost about their gear being made of, "chadsteel" instead of darksteel in response(since Norvrandt does have access to better materials via gathering), but while I was at it a realization occurred to me because I can never joke for very long when thinking about this topic.

The First was pushed to the brink of annihilation by the Flood of Light. However, this Flood was stopped by Minfilia and the souls of Ardbert's companions. It left The First desolate, except for Norvrandt.

What then happened to Norvrandt's Lifestream? Well... it continued to exist and go on, containing every soul and every mote of aether that the planet held in its aetherial plane. It must have, because for over a hundred years, new lives continued to be birthed, and souls continued to flow back to into living bodies under new identities.

At the same time, the world was primed and set back to its primed state from its flood state for a Rejoining. All the Ascians had to do was completely rend the dimensional veil separating the Source and The First with a properly aspected calamity on the Source.

So the walls keeping their aetherial realms apart was thin, too.

I postulate that all of the aether of the First then became concentrated in Norvrandt, enriching and empowering the life that remained. I also think that it's possible that aether from the Source may have been leaking through the seams of the dimensional veil, further enriching the life and land that was left to conduct the aether.

Combine that on top of survival being naturally challenging, leading to the tough or the lucky surviving.

Further still, given Norvrandt's proximity to concept crystals of the original monster beings... is it not possible that some of those had been out and about in Norvrandt, interbreeding with fauna of a similar nature?

This leads me to think about why the Endwalkers monsters will be 81+. Well, devilish experiments using the concept crystals of the Ancients combined with Allagan/Telo tech.

I know you probably still view it as just... gameplay story segregation, but I really don't think it's that far of a reach!

[dreamfisher]

I postulate that all of the aether of the First then became concentrated in Norvrandt, enriching and empowering the life that remained.

This reminds me of the devolution of dragons on the Source, but in reverse. A great concentration of aether would naturally, through many generations, lead to more powerful life forms.
Though my understanding was that the aether is all still there, just inactive—in the form of The Empty. I wasn't taking notes during the Eden questline, so I could be wrong about how that all works.

[YianKutku]

I still giggle at the thought of the one Treant in the level 80 SCH capstone quest, who could probably solo all of ARR by itself (assuming it's immune to tempering and such).

[Vyrerus]

I still giggle at the thought of the one Treant in the level 80 SCH capstone quest, who could probably solo all of ARR by itself (assuming it's immune to tempering and such).

How about them level 80 Ala Mhigan bandits? That X'ruhn Tia and Aria were kind enough to merely subdue. Meanwhile the ones that assailed the WoL? Dusted.

The other option, apart from writing a treatise on the hows or blaming "chadsteel" is that the WoL has some issues. They just pretend that everything's been leveling up with them as they go, so that they don't feel bad about routing all the people they gotta beat up.

[Kranel_San]

People don't want to contend with gameplay reasons, eh?
What are you guys going to explain next? The loot from ex and savage?

[Mansion]

What are you guys going to explain next? The loot from ex and savage?

Well obviously you tell tales of fighting a ferocious foe that you write in books, that you give to weaponsmith and armourer so they get inspired and create better gear...
I don't know about totems tho

[Alleluia]

This reminds me of the devolution of dragons on the Source, but in reverse. A great concentration of aether would naturally, through many generations, lead to more powerful life forms.
Though my understanding was that the aether is all still there, just inactive—in the form of The Empty. I wasn't taking notes during the Eden questline, so I could be wrong about how that all works.

Far as I'm aware, this is accurate. And I think it cuts a sizable hole in the OP's idea. The aether of the entire planet didn't get pushed to Norvrandt or into the lifestream with the flood. The flood of light was more like a flashfreeze in the sense it froze any aether in place that it came into contact with, locking it there in stasis. I'm sure Norvrandt saw an influx of aether from anyone who actually managed to run from the flood into the region, but I doubt it was much.

Now Norvrandt is the only outlet of the First's lifestream, so it also receives anything that was in there at the time and has a bit of a cushion when it comes to material for new souls. Though, really, I doubt there's been a much of a population boom in Norvrandt over the last century, what with the apocalypse and everything, so needing more material for life to be born than is available is likely not a concern.

[Vyrerus]

Far as I'm aware, this is accurate. And I think it cuts a sizable hole in the OP's idea. The aether of the entire planet didn't get pushed to Norvrandt or into the lifestream with the flood. The flood of light was more like a flashfreeze in the sense it froze any aether in place that it came into contact with, locking it there in stasis. I'm sure Norvrandt saw an influx of aether from anyone who actually managed to run from the flood into the region, but I doubt it was much.

Now Norvrandt is the only outlet of the First's lifestream, so it also receives anything that was in there at the time and has a bit of a cushion when it comes to material for new souls. Though, really, I doubt there's been a much of a population boom in Norvrandt over the last century, what with the apocalypse and everything, so needing more material for life to be born than is available is likely not a concern.

I will point out that the only aether left in The Empty is that of Eden itself and the ambient aether. It is the ambient aether that is corrupted, such that spending too much time out there either kills you or turns you into a sin eater. All living aether was expunged, either by Sin Eater transformation or death. That was 9/10ths of the world's population.

So a huge bulk of it came to Norvrandt as Sin Eaters, at the very least. We also know that people who died in the Flood reincarnated in Norvrandt, Gaia among them, and she was at the epicenter of the start of the Flood. This means that the aether that carries the soul to the Lifestream was not corrupted or stagnated by the Flood.

It's not a perfect musing, but it is something to consider.

[Cleretic]

The way leveling works in this game is, I think, just a useful way of showing that while we're getting stronger and progressing in strength, we are not gods.

Rabid dogs do not suddenly become completely harmless because you got jacked as hell. The reason we keep finding similar adds in ever-increasing level ranges isn't because they're getting as absurdly strong as we are; it's because we actually aren't. A rabid dog is always going to be a threat to a human being, no matter how many UFC championships they've won.

In fact, perhaps more helpfully, you can compare the big-ticket enemies of every expansion to see that we're not actually progressing in power as much as you'd think if you were religious about levels. Nidhogg and Shinryu, who had the exact same power source, would reasonably be about equal in power (hell, I'd actually say Shinryu should be weaker, since there's less aether in the eye-batteries); and while they have some crazier tricks up their sleeves, when it comes down to a straight-up fight Hades and the Warrior of Light aren't much stronger. Once Hydaelyn takes the three primals out of Ultima Weapon, it's about as strong as the VIIth Legion's Weapons, just with a bit more wear and tear.

We are not in Dragon Ball Z, we aren't bearing down on progressively more absurd power levels.

[Vyrerus]

The way leveling works in this game is, I think, just a useful way of showing that while we're getting stronger and progressing in strength, we are not gods.

Rabid dogs do not suddenly become completely harmless because you got jacked as hell. The reason we keep finding similar adds in ever-increasing level ranges isn't because they're getting as absurdly strong as we are; it's because we actually aren't. A rabid dog is always going to be a threat to a human being, no matter how many UFC championships they've won.

In fact, perhaps more helpfully, you can compare the big-ticket enemies of every expansion to see that we're not actually progressing in power as much as you'd think if you were religious about levels. Nidhogg and Shinryu, who had the exact same power source, would reasonably be about equal in power (hell, I'd actually say Shinryu should be weaker, since there's less aether in the eye-batteries); and while they have some crazier tricks up their sleeves, when it comes down to a straight-up fight Hades and the Warrior of Light aren't much stronger. Once Hydaelyn takes the three primals out of Ultima Weapon, it's about as strong as the VIIth Legion's Weapons, just with a bit more wear and tear.

We are not in Dragon Ball Z, we aren't bearing down on progressively more absurd power levels.

*looks at Monk job questline*

*Looks at the beam battle between Shinryu and Omega*

*Watches Louisoix contest Teraflare and Bahamut*


Y-yeah... Not like Dragonball Z or any other power escalation anime at all... nope. >.>;

End expansion bosses are somewhat hard to compare, due to having differing circumstances with vague temporary powerups for the fight or power downs on the bad guys.

2.0 Hydaelyn Assisted
2.5 Nabriales - We do it ourselves

3.0 We do it ourselves
3.3 Nidhogg = Hraesvelgr Eyeball assist

4.0 We do it ourselves, but it's Zenos's first time mantling a primal... on screen? Not sure if he's really bringing Shinryu's full might to bear.


5.0 Blessing assisted, but it fizzles before the end, and only really helps us break out of the chains and augments our already formidable Ardbert-propelled might until Hades engulfs it.
5.3 We do it ourselves.

I mean, obviously there are other bosses and raid bosses, and it's not completely uphill like an escalation anime, but in general it kind of is.

Like by Stormblood, M'naago who's known us for all of a day, but knows our reputation just assumes we'll have no problem whatsoever with any type of Magitek armor. For the WoL, there was definitely a point where ordinary things stopped being a real threat, which is why scenes like the sleeping drugged tea feel so contrived.