6.0 Story Speculations

[JeanneOrnitier]

Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.


Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

Hythlodaeus himself observed in the DMV scene how he had more autonomy than the other reconstructed ancients.

That said given Emet's spirit appeared in the Elidibus fight I am inclined to think he was the one who set the crystals there. Plus how would Hythlodaeus have even gotten them?

[YianKutku]

Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

I believe that Hythlodaeus was an unintended consequence of Emet-Selch attempting to rebuild a vision of Amaurot, but not being completely omniscient (which the Amaurotines do demonstrate and explain to us, so it's understandable). I don't think everything Hythlodaeus does is something Emet-Selch would have intended, except in the sense that Emet-Selch would have intended Hythlodaeus to act like the Hythlodaeus he remembers. Which includes acting in ways that Emet-Selch would not have thought of or approved of.

[Cleretic]

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

This one's actually mostly true, though. Omega's whole storyline is about it trying to find the strongest possible warrior so that it can improve its own capabilities through what it learns from their fighting, because it's still struggling with the fact it lost to Midgardsormr.

The only thing that didn't go to plan was that Omega lost to us after taking the optimal calculated form.

[YianKutku]

This one's actually mostly true, though. Omega's whole storyline is about it trying to find the strongest possible warrior so that it can improve its own capabilities through what it learns from their fighting, because it's still struggling with the fact it lost to Midgardsormr.

The only thing that didn't go to plan was that Omega lost to us after taking the optimal calculated form.

There was also the part where Alpha tried to free us from Omega's trap, and Omega clearly did not intend for this. Omega also didn't care that Alpha was ineffectually throwing himself against the barrier, but this act of perseverance was what inspired Midgardsormr to free us instead.

I highly, highly doubt that this was part of Omega's plan, because there is no way to plan for such an occurrence at all.

In fact, a lot of these "ah, but it was their plan all along" speculations run into the question of why the alleged planner would go to such extraordinary lengths to act out this bizarre theatre. Surely there was a much simpler and quicker way to achieve their goals.

[Veloran]

By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

Despite what Hythlodaeus says, it looks to me as though he was obviously put there intentionally. He comes up to WoL when WoL is forced to be sitting in a queue because of the bureaucratic façade Emet created, and the queue just happens to appear and disappear exactly according to the story Hythlodaeus is putting out as a visual aid, and when you confront Emet shortly thereafter he already assumes you know what Hylodaeus had told you. Moreover, we don't have any reason to think that a simple recreation like Hythlodaeus would even be capable of getting or creating the memory stones on his own.

In fact, a lot of these "ah, but it was their plan all along" speculations run into the question of why the alleged planner would go to such extraordinary lengths to act out this bizarre theatre. Surely there was a much simpler and quicker way to achieve their goals.

Emet-Selch is literally theatrical and all of phantom Amaurot is basically the stage he created to tell you the story of the Final Days in order to try and push WoL into controlling the Light and prove they could live up to Azem.

[GoldStarz]

Despite what Hythlodaeus says, it looks to me as though he was obviously put there intentionally. He comes up to WoL when WoL is forced to be sitting in a queue because of the bureaucratic façade Emet created, and the queue just happens to appear and disappear exactly according to the story Hythlodaeus is putting out as a visual aid, and when you confront Emet shortly thereafter he already assumes you know what Hylodaeus had told you. Moreover, we don't have any reason to think that a simple recreation like Hythlodaeus would even be capable of getting or creating the memory stones on his own.

While I agree with you that the soul crystals were planted by Emet (or at the very least by some way of Emet's devising) in the "off-chance" he lost and was killed, I don't think that you can argue that confirms Hythlodaeus was an intentional creation of Emet (at least not in the way that he currently is and acts). It always felt like to me that Hythlodaeus always gives us a little much information than what Emet would have liked to be given, even if it's not directly relevant like everything regarding Azem.

[Lauront]

It was perfectly within Hades's control to snuff out the creation and bring about one that was more rigidly controlled if he so desired it. So we can assume if he genuinely had an issue with it, he'd cut it short.

On the point of the crystals, placing the Azem stone with Hythlodaeus would've been rather meaningless if Hades did not intend to act upon being summoned, since Ere our curtain falls strongly suggests that is exactly what it did, and particularly the JP version of it, although they all get the same point across. Given that these stones were created post-sundering (more clearly spelt out in the FR version, but also apparent from Emet's secrecy around the Azem stone), to me it is obvious that he very deliberately infused Hythlodaeus with this knowledge, to act on it in the event that he fell in battle - and the - or a major - reason should be clear from the fight itself, where he asks how would their plans be realised in his absence? So clearly he did not want Elidibus drifting about to enact a plan he'd be unable to complete without Hades.

Asking why didn't this very theatrical individual resort to quicker/simpler methods is missing the point, somewhat...

[Wiz33]

While I agree with you that the soul crystals were planted by Emet (or at the very least by some way of Emet's devising) in the "off-chance" he lost and was killed, I don't think that you can argue that confirms Hythlodaeus was an intentional creation of Emet (at least not in the way that he currently is and acts). It always felt like to me that Hythlodaeus always gives us a little much information than what Emet would have liked to be given, even if it's not directly relevant like everything regarding Azem.

Were you asleep in class during the conversation with Hythlodaeus where he said "These other seem unaware of their pale existance, but I wonder if Emet-Selch's mind was distracted when it came to my reconstitution"? Also, when Y'shtola confronted Emet for "Not content with remaking an entire city, you aim to fill it with the reconstituted souls of the dead" ay which Emet replied "I may haave gotten a little carried away, in my attention to detail. Added a few unnecessary flourishes"? A lot of people fail to realize that Amaurot is not a random dungeon. The entire world is re-created by Emet so there's is no such thing as random encounters. Everything you experienced in Amaurot is there for a reason (to educate you about their past and their mistakes to prepare you to carry on their legacy). Which also means that that's quite a lot of preparation for an "off chance" and if Emet went through all that trouble for something as trivial, he would have had a perfect exit strategy in the "off chance" that you defeat him.

[Wiz33]

Hythlodaeus himself observed in the DMV scene how he had more autonomy than the other reconstructed ancients.

That said given Emet's spirit appeared in the Elidibus fight I am inclined to think he was the one who set the crystals there. Plus how would Hythlodaeus have even gotten them?

Hythlodaeus didn't say he has more control, just that his construction is more detailed with more awareness. enough to realize that he's just a shade created by Emet. Not that he necssary have more control over his actions which he freely admits to in Etched in the Stars when he handed you the Azem crystal "After all, I cannot say whether I act of my own volition or by the will of my recreator".

[Wiz33]

By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

I believe that Hythlodaeus was an unintended consequence of Emet-Selch attempting to rebuild a vision of Amaurot, but not being completely omniscient (which the Amaurotines do demonstrate and explain to us, so it's understandable). I don't think everything Hythlodaeus does is something Emet-Selch would have intended, except in the sense that Emet-Selch would have intended Hythlodaeus to act like the Hythlodaeus he remembers. Which includes acting in ways that Emet-Selch would not have thought of or approved of.

The Amaurotine is not omniscient but an unsundered Amaurotine is still basically a god compare to you. In a world design by Emet-Selch, there is no such thing as unintended consequences and there's is no such thing as random encounters. Everything you experienced in Amaurot is there for a reason (to educate you about their past and their mistakes to prepare you to carry on their legacy). Hythloaeus was just created with more detail and awareness because he's a close friend (enough to realize he's a re-created shade), but not freedom of action which he freely admits to in Etched in the Stars when he handed you the Azem crystal "After all, I cannot say whether I act of my own volition or by the will of my recreator".