Suggestion: Improved Glamour System

[Shurrikhan]

yoshi-p has already said no to a glamor log. not possible with the way the game is currently programmed.

He also said that about cross-server or PvP glamors, or being able to transmog a 1H wand/sceptor onto a two-hander staff/cane...

[KhevanFarstryder]

He also said that about cross-server or PvP glamors, or being able to transmog a 1H wand/sceptor onto a two-hander staff/cane...

To quote Lloyd, "So you're saying there's a chance...."

That's kinda what I thought as well. There are many things Yoshida-san says can't be done and then his team goes and does it behind his back and makes it work. If it's a server issue, maybe they can be upgraded? Could they make a dedicated glamour server that only holds the glamour data for each data center, then make it so it can't be accessed anywhere outside the inn? Then it wouldn't affect any other game systems. I'm not an IT systems analyst so I have no idea. Make it so that the glamour plates are the only part of the glamour system that could be accessed outside the inn, and even then just in the major cities like it is now?

Could they change the way the game is currently programmed? With the increased income from all the new players, could they hire someone to work on improving the game engine? I'm not a programmer so just spit-balling here.

Where there's a will, there's a way, no?

[KhevanFarstryder]

There are almost 20,000 equipable items in the game. If you ignore belts, this number will go down; but let's assume the number of items will stay about the same or go up once we account for the items that are coming in Endwalker. That means we need log_2(20,000) --between 15 and 16-- bits to differentiate between all the different equipable items in the game, and another bit for HQ/NQ. So the glamour dresser needs 2 bytes per item to remember what the item is. The glamour dresser also remembers an item's dye. We have something like 120 dyes, and another byte can handle that. [...] So ignoring that information, we need 3 bytes per item in the dresser. A 400 item dresser then should require 1,200 bytes.

If instead we stored 1 byte for each equipable item we've ever obtained, the catalog would require 20,000/8 bytes. That comes out to 2,500 bytes, which is over twice the minimum data required to support a 400 item dresser. So if they're worried about storage space now, it could be much worse with a glamour catalog. There are of course data structure optimizations and compression algorithms that you could apply to reduce the storage required in either case, at the cost of increased processing requirements, but then we get back to how much processing would need to be done on many glamour catalog access requests over a period of time.

I realize that there are more items for which you would need to store information, but isn't there less data per item that would need to be stored? Since these are not items that could be restored, for example, you wouldn't need to keep track of quality (NQ/HQ), dyeable/undyeable (just replace the undyeable with the dyeable if you get it), maker's mark, etc. It would just be a boolean array for each character of 1 byte per item (2 bytes for items that have a dyeable/undyeable option - 1 byte for the true/false of having unlocked the item and 1 byte for the true/false of it being the dyeable version). Wouldn't need to keep track of pre-dye either, since I mentioned that a con to the original proposal would be that you couldn't pre-dye items (it would only be tracked on the glamour plates).

I know, 2.5 kB is not a lot. But with 24 million registered players, the total data required to store just glamour data would be about 60 GB.

Now if you took that and split it up per server (not all 24 million players are on one server and I mentioned in the original post that the database would be account wide so wouldn't need 1 database per character, unlike the current item dresser, just 1 per player), how much room would it take per server then? And if you limited access to it (couldn't access any of it, other than the glamour plates, if you do a cross server/datacenter visit or are outside an inn) would the server load be more feasible?

[Rongway]

I realize that there are more items for which you would need to store information, but isn't there less data per item that would need to be stored? Since these are not items that could be restored, for example, you wouldn't need to keep track of quality (NQ/HQ), dyeable/undyeable (just replace the undyeable with the dyeable if you get it), maker's mark, etc. It would just be a boolean array for each character of 1 byte per item (2 bytes for items that have a dyeable/undyeable option - 1 byte for the true/false of having unlocked the item and 1 byte for the true/false of it being the dyeable version). Wouldn't need to keep track of pre-dye either, since I mentioned that a con to the original proposal would be that you couldn't pre-dye items (it would only be tracked on the glamour plates).

One bit per item, and it wouldn't matter if it's dyable or not because a catalog system would only care if you've acquired the item or not. It would be up to the client to map the bits to items and tell you which ones are dyable.

At 1 bit per item, it comes out to twice as much data as currently required.

Now if you took that and split it up per server (not all 24 million players are on one server and I mentioned in the original post that the database would be account wide so wouldn't need 1 database per character, unlike the current item dresser, just 1 per player), how much room would it take per server then? And if you limited access to it (couldn't access any of it, other than the glamour plates, if you do a cross server/datacenter visit or are outside an inn) would the server load be more feasible?

I suspect it wouldn't make a difference if the people with multiple characters were allowed to consolidate their glamour data into a single catalog. There are probably far more people with single characters than with many alts, so account-wide glamour catalogs would only save so much space.

Besides, have you ever heard the XIV devs respond to requests for account-wide things? We may some day get a glamour catalog but I don't imagine for a second that they would make it account-wide, even if that could save them enough storage to allow a more accessible catalog.

[DrWho2010]

He also said that about cross-server or PvP glamors, or being able to transmog a 1H wand/sceptor onto a two-hander staff/cane...

don't... don't give people false hope. just accept what he said is what he said and then if it happens to change later on the future, eh then you can be pleasantly surprised. this is why he has to watch so carefully what he says and only talks in absolutes with the information has has at the time.

[Sylvain]

Then how does World of Warcraft does it?
As far as I'm concerned the library is consequent. It is mitigated by the fact that you can only see what your character can wear but in any case they currently can access a catalogue, anywhere, which contains way over 400 items.

There are things that could be ignored like ignoring HQ/NQ or which dye is applied (none basically). Many accessories have the exact same skin so some pieces could be saved there too, not that it's the biggest issue but still.

But yeah going back to WoW, how do they do it? How do their server handle the data stress?

[KhevanFarstryder]

Exactly! Older games can do it so why not FFXIV?

I look at this thread and other threads about housing scarcity or other systems that are not working as well as they could and all the naysayers always says that it is the fault of "the old system". Can't do this or that because of how "the system" works. I'm so tired of this excuse!

Then I say: FIX THE SYSTEM!

They are making more money than they ever have in the history of Final Fantasy. They get $15 to $30 per month for most people that are playing. They make money hand over fist from the MogStation. They get a huge cash infusion every couple years from expansions. They have the money to fix "the system".

I assume that their programmers and game designers are intelligent enough to figure out a way to fix "the system". If not, hire new programmers/designers that ARE smart enough to fix it! I understand that there is a worldwide hardware shortage at the moment, but start working on the fixes now to be implemented when the hardware is ready.

Sorry, just had to vent there. I'm just so tired and frustrated at hearing the same old "system" excuse.

/rant over

[Tsiron]

One other thing they could do to improve Glamour, in my opinion, is letting us Glamour any gear, barring weapons, on any Job, as long as its required Job is leveled enough to use it.

It's a (really neat) feature that was added in Final Fantasy XI... 13 years after that game first launched. I made a thread trying to boost that exact concept, but I figure it can't hurt to bring it up now and again (shameless though it may be)!

[Sylvain]

Then I say: FIX THE SYSTEM![/B]


They are making more money than they ever have in the history of Final Fantasy. They get $15 to $30 per month for most people that are playing. They make money hand over fist from the MogStation. They get a huge cash infusion every couple years from expansions. They have the money to fix "the system".



I assume that their programmers and game designers are intelligent enough to figure out a way to fix "the system". If not, hire new programmers/designers that ARE smart enough to fix it! I understand that there is a worldwide hardware shortage at the moment, but start working on the fixes now to be implemented when the hardware is ready.

Well that's a bit of an over simplification.

First, there are things that just can't simply be fixed without major overhaul. Because it would not be a fix, it would be an overhaul. I'll take the example of DIII.
DIII UI was coded in a way that mad it impossible to be tweaked and modified. Basically, instead of having many different assets, part that you could move around independantly, it was one big chunk of UI. A bit like the HP and Mana bar are right now for instance. Therefor, because of that, any requested modification to the UI, beside basic design, was impossible. Because the whole game was coded and linked to a single element and not various different elements. I do not know if FF14 has the same issue with MP and HP, but depending on how this is coded, splitting them into different elements can range from trivial, to complex.
So then the question becomes, how much ressource do I grant to the solution of this "problem". Because in a sens, it is not a problem. It is an inconvenience to those, like me, who'd rather have those two bars on top of each others, those who want them in 2 differents position, or simply to everyone who do not need any MP and would rather turn off the MP bar completely. Maybe it would be so annoying to change that actually removing the bar entirely and creating a new MP bar could be easier.

The fact that they are making a lot of money is irrelevant because it is not SE that decides which issue has to be adressed, it is Y.P. And Y.P like any project manager has a budget and a fixed amount of ressources, in that case ressources means people. As you said, why don't they simply hire more? Well something hiring more isn't the solution to everything. Let's not forget we're talking about Japan, it is not the US where it is common to hire people for a small 3-6 month project. Because of this hiring someone is more like a permanent new open position. It is not like hiring a company for creating extra assets that they can just use at their convenance. It is therefor harder to justify opening new position just for a few things. The rough idea is, you could double the number of cook in your kitchen, your meal won't come faster.
Increasing the amount of employees is not always the solution. I'm not saying it never is tho, but he specifically said in an interview that they would not benefit from hiring a few people. Either SE grant them more found, they open up a new department of developper that tackles new content or whatnot, or nothing. There are a lot of things Y.P would like to make but can't due to team restriction. And this is because the money of your monthly subscription goes to SE and not FF14 directly. Yet interestingly the money from the Mogstation goes directly to the game. Do they even have office space for more?

I think you miss understood my question when I asked "if wow can do it why not ffxiv?" i didn't say it as a provocation or anything. I was asking on a proper technical level, how does WoW do it? How does WoW handle the data trafic?

[Iscah]

He also said that about cross-server or PvP glamors, or being able to transmog a 1H wand/sceptor onto a two-hander staff/cane...

We still can't glamour a wand onto a cane.

And cross-server still has limitations on things that they said they wanted to do but couldn't, like making the marketboard fully server-wide.

Also, just because they worked out a solution to some things after initially thinking they couldn't, doesn't mean it's possible for them to solve every other thing they say can't be done. Especially when it's not just "we can't" but "we've really really tried and we're sorry we can't make it work".