It's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.

[Mortex]

And yes the arguments they mostly have are not good ones but you can still try to have a decent talk.

[Sebazy]

And yes the arguments they mostly have are not good ones but you can still try to have a decent talk.

Ya, it's actually quite enjoyable on the occasions where we do manage to get a good discussion going, there are plenty of people on here who tend to go firmly against the grain but are more than capable of putting forward well thought out reasons for doing so.

Looking at RinaB's posts, I'm not too hopeful of that happening here though

[Mortex]

Ya, it's actually quite enjoyable on the occasions where we do manage to get a good discussion going, there are plenty of people on here who tend to go firmly against the grain but are more than capable of putting forward well thought out reasons for doing so.

Looking at RinaB's posts, I'm not too hopeful of that happening here though

At least you can try…… I don’t expect a response because normally these people come in here and say stuff like this without giving good examples at all. I’m pretty sure that some player even go full “mad manhunt” mode in dungeons when you dps as healer and they drop under 50 % health, like I had a lot of tanks using cds and after they saw me do dmg and not have them on 95% health all the time they just didn’t use any at all, forcing me to massively heal them or wipe, to prove some point or so (of course it’s rare that we do wipe because I have eyes, you know and can see buffs and health and realize that the tank takes way more dmg then he did 3 packs earlier because he doesn’t use any cd anymore).

[Raminax]

I wish there could be actual discussion as well, but it honestly just ends up boiling down to using the same old tired and debunked talking points, or fanning the flames with the mean boogeymen that routinely kill the entire group out of spite. Zoning out or pushing your limits too far? No, obviously it's a Green DPS being a spiteful jerk!

Like, I am genuinely curious how people who refuse to deal damage out of principle keep this game entertaining for them. Using a somewhat mediocre The Grand Cosmos run I was in ages ago (because apparently people log those for some reason), the random healer there spent 60 GCDs healing in a 16:12 run. That's roughly 150 seconds spent healing, on a run that took us 972 seconds. That's about 15% of their time spent healing. And to defend the poor thing, they were actually dealing damage, too - a whole 126 GCDs of hardcast damage spells.

How do people justify sitting around 85% of their time in casual content, doing nothing? As much as filthy tryhards and god-tier gamers are accused of optimizing the fun out of the game, how does the other extreme have fun when effectively 85% of their time in an average run could be boiled down to watching the scenery or hitting a single button over and over?

And for comparison's sake, using one very good run of Matoya's Relict with two friends I consider rather competent, I spent 20 GCDs healing. With 41% overhealing, at that. That's 50 seconds out of a 792 second run. You're telling me that I should shut up and enjoy spending 93% of my time doing /dance or spamming Holy?

[GrimGale]

I wish there could be actual discussion as well, but it honestly just ends up boiling down to using the same old tired and debunked talking points, or fanning the flames with the mean boogeymen that routinely kill the entire group out of spite. Zoning out or pushing your limits too far? No, obviously it's a Green DPS being a spiteful jerk!

Like, I am genuinely curious how people who refuse to deal damage out of principle keep this game entertaining for them. Using a somewhat mediocre The Grand Cosmos run I was in ages ago (because apparently people log those for some reason), the random healer there spent 60 GCDs healing in a 16:12 run. That's roughly 150 seconds spent healing, on a run that took us 972 seconds. That's about 15% of their time spent healing. And to defend the poor thing, they were actually dealing damage, too - a whole 126 GCDs of hardcast damage spells.

How do people justify sitting around 85% of their time in casual content, doing nothing? As much as filthy tryhards and god-tier gamers are accused of optimizing the fun out of the game, how does the other extreme have fun when effectively 85% of their time in an average run could be boiled down to watching the scenery or hitting a single button over and over?

And for comparison's sake, using one very good run of Matoya's Relict with two friends I consider rather competent, I spent 20 GCDs healing. With 41% overhealing, at that. That's 50 seconds out of a 792 second run. You're telling me that I should shut up and enjoy spending 93% of my time doing /dance or spamming Holy?

See, here are the limits of "In my opinion the system is perfect because I have fun. " or "In my opinion the system is not good because I don't have fun."

It's not a useful criticism- Because its impossible to get to some sort of conscensus. And when there is a partial conscensus it's the rule of that majority, ostracising the minority. We can't have both.

But we can! We could have both. There are enough Healer jobs to warrant variability- In the same way there are enough DPS jobs to warrant variability. Some DPS jobs are more complicated than the others. Their potentials different, their niches distinct.

And with healers it is somewhat true: Their healing niches and abilities are distinct. But when it comes to their downtime filler abilities, not so much.

Why would the devs ignore the distinctivness that part of the healer jobs can potentially bring? Homogenization? Balance? Accessibility? Why are healers (And tanks, honestly) cursed with this double standard in design?

[Tarrick]

00:40 - Mechanics! Move accordingly and you won't die or take damage! This mechanic repeats 3 more times up till...
01:42 - Different mechanic! Move accordingly and you won't die!

Man, I sure am happy for everyone on this board whose parties always completely avoid mechanics such that they never have to heal absolutely anything but unavoidable damage and tanks. That's totally a completely realistic expectation for everyone in the entire game. We should just have our statics wipe as soon as someone touches a mechanic that they could have avoided since, well, they were supposed to avoid it, afterall. They don't need healing, they just need to do the mechanics perfectly like everyone else does. Clearly healers never have to deal with unexpected damage and know exactly when to press every button they've ever pressed.

[WaxSw]

Man, I sure am happy for everyone on this board whose parties always completely avoid mechanics such that they never have to heal absolutely anything but unavoidable damage and tanks. That's totally a completely realistic expectation for everyone in the entire game. We should just have our statics wipe as soon as someone touches a mechanic that they could have avoided since, well, they were supposed to avoid it, afterall. They don't need healing, they just need to do the mechanics perfectly like everyone else does. Clearly healers never have to deal with unexpected damage and know exactly when to press every button they've ever pressed.

If you're in endgame not doing a mechanic will likely go from killing you to depending on the situation wipe, just swiftcast raise if the former, nothing you can do in the latter. If you're in casual content the damage is so low it barely requires healing so it can pretty much be ignored and let pasive sources of healing deal with it, but hey, lets take the situation where you gotta heal:

-0:40 :Someone fucks up, you throw an oGCD and keep dpsing
-1:42: Someone fucks up again, another oGCD (as a lot of them can be used once per minute), maybe a GCD heal if your oGCD of preference is not ready

in a total of 1:02 mins or in other words around 25 GCDs you've used 2-3 heals, at best 1 of them GCD if you're half decent, you use your dot 2 times (30s long), what do we do in the other 22 GCDS? Spam 1 button, now since you're a blm imagine spamming Fire 1 every 22 out of 25 GCDs and that being the best case scenario because if someone doesn't fuck up then its 25 out of 25, does it sound fun or even mildly engaging?

[Rilifane]

Man, I sure am happy for everyone on this board whose parties always completely avoid mechanics such that they never have to heal absolutely anything but unavoidable damage and tanks. That's totally a completely realistic expectation for everyone in the entire game. We should just have our statics wipe as soon as someone touches a mechanic that they could have avoided since, well, they were supposed to avoid it, afterall. They don't need healing, they just need to do the mechanics perfectly like everyone else does. Clearly healers never have to deal with unexpected damage and know exactly when to press every button they've ever pressed.

I just came out of a e5n run that took 8:30, we had 22 deaths and I took almost half the resses with two RDMs, we had 58 vuln stacks with up to 4 of them on the MT, 24 damage downs from clouds making love and my total amount of GCD heals was 4 and no, my co heal didn't carry the healing one bit.
Most of the time was still spend with Broil/ Ruin II.
And that's not exactly an example of people doing mechanics perfectly or no unexpected damage ever occuring.
The party can need a lot of healing without forcing either healer to GCD heal.

[Mortex]

Man, I sure am happy for everyone on this board whose parties always completely avoid mechanics such that they never have to heal absolutely anything but unavoidable damage and tanks. That's totally a completely realistic expectation for everyone in the entire game. We should just have our statics wipe as soon as someone touches a mechanic that they could have avoided since, well, they were supposed to avoid it, afterall. They don't need healing, they just need to do the mechanics perfectly like everyone else does. Clearly healers never have to deal with unexpected damage and know exactly when to press every button they've ever pressed.

Individual Responsibility. Ever job has options to make a run smoother for all people and help out everyone in the run.
If you dont use all your tools or dont even talk with your party on how they can help you with specific mechanics to make them more relaxed for you and everyone you are also a part of the problem.

And at this point we all dont do that to the best of our abilities (some do it more, some less and others dont at all and im no exception in that regard).
Depending on what fights you do, one dead person is gonna be a wipe and if you do the majority of content you can almost always slow rezz without having to worry anything because the healing requirement is non existing.

And also people should learn to stand up when they fail mechanics that wipe the party. Writing sorry and telling you derped isnt witchcraft but rather common decency and respecting other peoples time.

[Sebazy]

Man, I sure am happy for everyone on this board whose parties always completely avoid mechanics such that they never have to heal absolutely anything but unavoidable damage and tanks. That's totally a completely realistic expectation for everyone in the entire game. We should just have our statics wipe as soon as someone touches a mechanic that they could have avoided since, well, they were supposed to avoid it, afterall. They don't need healing, they just need to do the mechanics perfectly like everyone else does. Clearly healers never have to deal with unexpected damage and know exactly when to press every button they've ever pressed.

Time and time this comes up and time and time again it needs to be debunked





All of these are my total cast tallys from various E10S runs with my static aka the retirement home/glue factory.

One of these runs has 0 deaths and 2 damage downs (Aka a mechanic failure that likely dealt a ton of damage didn't kill the player). One has 2 deaths, 2 damage downs. One has 8 deaths, 1 damage down.

People eating avoidable damage genuinely don't need all that much healing. Casual content such as dungeons, 24 mans and normal mod raids put so little pressure on your healing kit that it's easy to keep cooldowns in your pocket for when people mess up. It's how a healer reacts to these situations that defines the time and resource cost of other peoples mistakes. React efficiently and it's genuinely pretty minimal.

Meanwhile in Savage/Extreme, it's pretty routine for splash oGCDs such as Asylum, Assize, Star etc to have people sufficiently topped for whatever's coming. People will try to accept raises after AoEs etc to facilitate this. If someone takes a raise right before an AoE, sure try and get them topped but choosing to hobble healer gameplay off the back of other peoples mistakes and low standards of play isn't acceptable in the long term.

Of course, the true irony here is that your sarcasm actually stands somewhat true.