Can we finally get real content / gameplay?

[Avrintera]

Heres the thing when I as a PLD can solo almost every dungeon post lvl 60 because of clemency and it not being hard at all. I mean I as a main tank feel insulted every time I log in and do roulettes. SO I stopped doing them at all I just cant its so god damn boring its insulting on such a high lvl to tanks. I mean unless its a leveling dungeon and even barely then you can not do any mitigation and still be fine mobs do so little dmg post ARR. The most times I have died is because one I wasent lvl 50 and 2 was because below lvl 50 some healers just dont pay attention because they are so used to watching Netflix at lvl 80 that they forget they have to esuna or use cure and dont got benediction or other quick heals lower lvl. Dont get me started on how now looking into endwalker they literally made PLD not just a Hyprid DPS/Tank were now a Hyprid DPS/Tank/Healer too so be prepared for dungeon to be even more braindead easy then they have ever been.

[Jojoya]

I think the OP has overlooked the obvious. It's not that the game has gotten easier. It's that the OP has become more knowledgeable and gotten better at playing the game so it feels easier. The magic of most games is strongest when they are new to the player and everything needs to be learned.

Game developers can't keep changing things in their games to spice things up for the veteran or the new player coming late to the game gets overwhelmed by conflicting systems being introduced in relatively short periods of time (compared to the months or years it took those changes to take place for the veteran player). A game gets its reputation from delivering a certain style of content. Make drastic changes to that style and you not only drive away veteran players who had been happy with what the game used to be, you have a harder time retaining new players who aren't getting what they heard they should expect (see WoW).

Like others have said, the OP has been playing the game a long time. Anything you enjoy will get stale after too much exposure. Better to take a complete break for a few months to do other things then pick the game back up. If the game still remains stale, it's a sign you're ready to move on to new games.

[Avrintera]

I think the OP has overlooked the obvious. It's not that the game has gotten easier. It's that the OP has become more knowledgeable and gotten better at playing the game so it feels easier. The magic of most games is strongest when they are new to the player and everything needs to be learned.

Game developers can't keep changing things in their games to spice things up for the veteran or the new player coming late to the game gets overwhelmed by conflicting systems being introduced in relatively short periods of time (compared to the months or years it took those changes to take place for the veteran player). A game gets its reputation from delivering a certain style of content. Make drastic changes to that style and you not only drive away veteran players who had been happy with what the game used to be, you have a harder time retaining new players who aren't getting what they heard they should expect (see WoW).

Like others have said, the OP has been playing the game a long time. Anything you enjoy will get stale after too much exposure. Better to take a complete break for a few months to do other things then pick the game back up. If the game still remains stale, it's a sign you're ready to move on to new games.

I have played a long time my first account was on ps4 back in the day before I lost it and restarted on pc. I still love doing dungeons mixing them up and watching new players have hard times and fun times and thats all great but when I at max lvl 80 in ShB can just not even have to think during pulls unless and I mean unless I am pushing it as hard as I can and not using every tool so I can feel the dmg or my healer loves netflix and dpsing over healing.

Compared to lvl 70 dungeons and below were I need the healer to be paying attention I need the dps to be doing there jobs or it can cause a wipe and then compare that to what we have in ShB I mean i love the game but come on its not hard to go yeah they really made the Shb Dungeons and trials piss easy compared to any expansion before it. (not included Savage and Extremes those were really cool this expansion) But they also took away so much from raids as well making it glorified trials which sucks alot of the fun out of it. I also think a big problem that were having is that there was no Deep Dungeon and no Bozja does not replace the feeling that Deep Dungeon gave.

[Justuas]

But keep in mind, when everything is taken at its base value, every game, EVERY GAME, just boils down to dodging and attacking. From the simplest platforms like Mario and Sonic to FPS's like Call of Duty and Borderlands. The main difference is in the delivery.

Have you played an actual rpg before? FFXI comes to mind.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

I have yet in five thousand hours to ever encounter this level of non difficulty you and so many others are going on about, OP.

EDIT: Never mind, I just got out of a run where the other Tank in a Diamond EX farm party waited thirty seconds after the fight started plus the setup time and a dead player to put on stance or provoke.

[ssunny2008]

I think the OP has overlooked the obvious. It's not that the game has gotten easier. It's that the OP has become more knowledgeable and gotten better at playing the game so it feels easier. The magic of most games is strongest when they are new to the player and everything needs to be learned.

I´m one of those guys who is getting used to everything quickly, but that doesn´t mean that everything is getting boring and stale pretty fast. FF14 has never been something "you need to learn" if you´ve played any other MMORPG before, but sadly it got easier and easier with each patch and any addon is just a repaint with a bunch of new story.


And it´s not even about the difficulty only. I´m sure i´ve written down enough which is not just "mimimi too easy". The efford of the devs to bring something new and unique drifted away to class homogenizations, predictable fights and the same stuff over and over again.

Just some numbers:

ARR:

-31 dungeons with different maps, different pathes, even hardcore dungeon variants
-12 normal and savage raids with different maps, mechanics, gimmicks
-27 trials with ponies (8 are hard versions)
-different and UNIQUE class designs. In the early days you do even needed to level more than 1 class to unlock the advanced classes.
-more use of utilities and debuffs
-If you fall off of a platform, you couldn´t get a rezz.
-Scripted but not so visible tankbusters, no long castbar for everything etc.

Heavensward:

-3 more classes, each one was unique on its own
-6 big maps and flying
-18 dungeons, some of them are hardcore variants from level 50 dungeons. They atleast tried to keep some unique features alive.
-12 normal and savage raids which lost some add pathing, but still tried to presentate unique maps / features
-treasure maps with Aquapolis-still use of utilities and debuffs
-14 trials with birds this time
-Tankbusters has become more visible or are behind castbars.
-treasure maps with Aquapolis


Stormblood:

-2 new classes and the bigger begin of class homogenization and dumbdowns
-again 6 big maps, 2-3 portpoints, dozens of quests appear once you reach them (1 will be a chainquest for sure) and flying ofc
-15 dungeons with a more static design than even HW had. Atleast some of them had some good fights, but sadly undertuned.
-12 normal and savage raids without pathing or adds and either completely squared or circled platforms.
-17 trials (2 thx to the MHW cooperation) this time with dogs
-less use of utilities and debuffs
-Tankbusters are behind castbars but appear still often
-Overall loooong castbars for nearly everything
-treasure maps just with another level and loot
-Eureka aka Fategrind


Shadowbringers:

-Class homogenization at its best. 2 new classes, 1 of them is for lefthanded players. Tanks got nuked in their existence with a braindead tankstance and 123 combo meanwhile WAR exists 2 times. All you´ve to care is to hold your burstphase on cd and thats it. Some other classes got reworked for the worse too since they didn´t got expanded of fixed, SE just got ride of a lot of stuff and called it a day. Not to mention that they got ride of ressources / have only ressources left on classes where you´ll never run out of them unless you died or have to spam rezz 3 times in a row.
-Again 6 big maps with..................................................
-ONLY 13 dungeons this time and all of them are straight lines into nowhere. Wall to wall at its best and the most of them are not even well designed. And they reduced the chests.
-12 normal and savage raids which has been the easiest of all time. The interesting point is, that E8s is the hardest and made use of everything which is left on the classes, but with E9s-E12s SE decided to say "Ok, easier content."
-15 trials with dragons...... and they got easier and easier from fight to fight
-Of course no real use of utilities or debuffs. What is cleanse for? Who knows... If something goes nuts, it´s either a "damage down" or "incoming damage increased" debuff.
-Castbars for everyone and strict aoe - mechanic - aoe - tb - aoe - mechanic pattern each fight.
-The OT has become a defensive cooldown on tankbusters in the latest tier, nothing else.
-Fategrind in form of Bozja (Eureka 2.0), Fategrind on each of the 6 maps and yes, if you want everything, you´ve to grind 1000+ Fates.
-Any new Event is nothing but a one-time fate. Or 1000 old fates for Yokais for whatever reason.
-Ishgard with heavy gatherer / crafter grind
-Treasure Maps again with new Loot...
-No more real class quests and "easy mode buttons"

Endwalker:

-Another time class homogenization especially on healers, MNK and SMN. 2 new classes.
-More of the same again, probably with less and easier content.
-Only dungeon bosses give XP anymore, everything else in the dungeon is useless.
-Don´t know about the rest, but just more of the same 100% sure.


Think whatever you want, it´s not all about difficulty. SE got lazy... we get less and less content, mostly fategrind as timesink and dumbdowns on classes, so they don´t have to care about balancing anymore. They do care about animations and bling bling, that´s all...

EDIT: Seems more like SE is trying to throw tons of glam and classes on us in an easy way, so we need to level and grind stuff all over again which lasts in long abonements. Gameplay-wise this game has become worse and worse over the time and that the devs don´t put any more depth or efford in the quest designs is obvious.

[Leigaon]

...Other games do it a way better. There are some normal dungeons with better gear than your current level is. They´ve hardcore dungeons with pets or mounts for those who beat the challenge. Even random chests are still useful.
I do even know some where crafter jobs can open secret pathes or activate NPC´s who help you. Or you´ve a sidequests in the dungeon with a bonusboss in the end, maybe even different bosses per run, based on the players decisions.
Such stuff brings way more enjoyment than the named "pull as much adds as you can, beat the boss, repeat" - cycle..

What would be an example? I haven't played as many games as you have. Just a small snippet of what you are looking for. For the fun of it, just make up a quick rundown of a dungeon, how you'd think it would go and the rewards. How much longer would it take in this hypothetical to clear compared to doing a normal run? What decisions would you have a player make to make different bosses? Would these bosses drop different gear? Making up a piece of gear, what would be an example of a piece of gear you'd have the boss possibly drop?

For the crafter option, what would you do differently for each crafter for each time they run something? I always thought it would be nice to have crafter options in dungeons. Blacksmith goes in has to make pick axes for npc's to mine to release the toxic poison that is in the dungeon and the pressure released would open up an optional path in the wall to something else, but the more i thought about it the more it got boring eventually. So, would be nice to hear a bit of details of ideas.

I tried to read some of the walls of text, so if you have an example I missed in them, then copy / paste it so I can find it.

[muzickmage]

I'm just getting started, currently working on MSQ lvl 60, and already I can see the mind-numbing grind for tomes to get level 50 and 60 gear for some of my classes. Based on what i'm reading i'm not sure if I should be in a hurry to move forward lol. This "rinse and repeat" equation sounds really boring.

Before I continue... let me just say... I completely agree with the OP. Fair argument backup up again, and again with fair arguments.

I don't want to encourage any competition as to who can design the best dungeon but... i'm old enough to remember the game "Dungeons and Dragons" when it was popularly played on paper. The excitement of running to the store to get that new Dungeon Master Handbook. Back when dungeons were actually........ dungeons - and not this sorry excuse, and insult to gamers, sewer hallway of nonsense that does nothing to (IMO) contribute to gaming.

The OP was asked... what kind of dungeon would you like to see then? Give us an example. Let me take a minute to help......

..... The OP mentioned different hallways yeilding different prizes. Lets take that a step further and use those separate hallways to separate the team. Tank ... you go straight, complete your objectives, and stand on the pad to unlock the first lock on the door. Wait there for the rest of the party to go down their separate hallways, complete their objectives, and stand on their pad. Once the door is unlocked... the team can make their way to the unlocked door, and stand together again. If someone in the party fails their objectives... the door simply doesn't get unlocked. Because the healer isn't made for fighting, have the healer's objective be something like "leap of faith" from the Gold Saucer. Something that the rest of the team can't just yell out the answer to and presto ... done.

This idea, and many more, can be thought of. But many people are just too busy, and interested in having the best rebuttle against someone elses post.

Plus, you have to look at the idea that... there are so many expert/elite gamers in FFXIV because of it being so dumbed down easy. The more challenging the game becomes, the more elite players we'll lose. So of course, in defense of their grandstanding status they trust they've earned at some point in that hallway to nowhere, they are going to defend the game as is.... because the game as is... is what they need... to continue grandstanding as a elite gamer.

Though I think the OP is putting a lot on the table, and offering excellent points. Unfortunately, I don't think the OP is going to win this argument. I'm already seeing the usual bumper stumper replies.

[ssunny2008]

What would be an example?

Just some brainstorming and examples of other games too.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5678267

And about the rewards, what is wrong to follow the standard progress system of any MMORPG? Imo any loot is irrelevant and that one pet each dungeon isn´t something special. There is a rarity system, why not making use of it as any other game does? Noone knows.

For the crafter option

I´m not talking about to go as a crafting class into a dungeon. It´s about some options you´ve, because you leveled them.

Let´s say you´re able to activate some traps in Halatali to get ride of a handfull of adds only because you´ve leveled your blacksmith.
Or a gourmet is able to buff the whole group at a campfire in any dungeons.
Maybe an Alchimist could make use of dead drones to reactivate them as helpful ally with damage or healing.

Just some little stuff like that. They could even go so far and grant different buffs from beginning player can activate by themselves.
e.g. Someone who leveled armorer could get an extra-skill to shield the whole party for 5s with a 120s cd. Or a goldsmith could grant a buff for some loot, which means you could find additional chests, or you get a 2% buff to drop rare loot or more gil, or you´re able to find rare gatherernodes in dungeons.
Just let the group choose up to 4 buffs at the start of the game based on the players crafter classes.

Whatever it is, anything would bring something variety to the game imo. And being able to gather or to find new crafting recipes in dungeons shouldn´t be a bad thing.

[Breakbeat]

I dunno about the whole attitude (not just from OP; I mean in general) about "they should change their menu".

What do I mean? Well, McDonalds sells Big Macs, right? If you like a Big Mac, you might eat it twice, three times or a hundred times. Sooner or later, though, you might get tired of eating Big Macs. That extra bread in the middle is starting to bug me. The tangy sauce is the same amount of 'tangy' since day one. The meat patties don't reach the edge of the bun.

Do you:

A) Write a diatribe on how Big Macs should be changed for those with evolving taste, despite the fact that a million people around you enjoy the current, 2021 Big Mac; or
B) Pick something else off the menu, or even find a different place to eat.

The fact that people spend time doing "A" doesn't make sense to me. This game ain't like castor oil. Millions of others enjoy it, all day every day.

If Big Mac sales fell to zero, I could see people saying, "...well duh, make the patties bigger!" But the Big Mac sells well. FFXIV sells well.

Instead of writing a diatribe on how the Big Mac should change to fit certain tastes, pick something else off the menu or if that doesn't cut it, find somewhere else to eat!

Good luck.