Fishing needs a total overhaul

[Plastics]

Something overlooked with this is swapping baits. What you choose to carry on your person (therefore, what shows up in the Bait & Tackle window) is also a strategic choice. Having all baits available at all times with the current Bait & Tackle menu would be a nightmare in many scenarios, and on some notably difficult fish too.

As Fisher has continued to get more complex, there are more and more incentives to being well-prepared before a fish window. ShB skills encourage this now more than ever. Being prepared with the proper bait in adequate quantities is just a part of being prepared as well.

Except it's not, you just look up a guide, go buy some bait, put it in your inventory, and switch as needed. How is that any different than just skipping the inventory bloat step? They've repeatedly said we won't get a separate tackle box storage because general storage is preferred over specialized storage, despite this being a very requested feature. You can just do away with the inventory slot usage altogether by making bait choice a toggle. Just imagine the bait window right now having all the baits and then like 5 client-side chosen favorites at the top.

This is one of a dozen issues with fishing that can be easily fixed. A major overhaul should be done just because it's so easy, but fishing remains the least polished and poorly implemented system in the game. With recent "changes" that are half-baked like spearfishing, it's also now fragmented with every fishing related thing having issues.

And then you have the apologists who refuse to acknowledge that it's all an extremely broken system because they suffered through it, so must everyone else, but in reality that just means nobody actually does fishing. Things like ocean fishing are just "throw line and catch stuff" for the majority of people who do it, with the handful of achievements being fairly easy to get without coordination, and very easy with coordination. But none of those people know the pain of trying to catch a bunch of big fish and needing to use external tools to track windows with multiple bags reserved for bait, or trying to farm specific fish for the 0.1% that are actually useful where there's no bait/timing combination that gives good yield with a deterministic result, so you're forced to sit there just waiting on RNG rolls which is.. I think you would find widely considered to be among the worst ways to design anything.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Except it's not, you just look up a guide, go buy some bait, put it in your inventory, and switch as needed. How is that any different than just skipping the inventory bloat step? They've repeatedly said we won't get a separate tackle box storage because general storage is preferred over specialized storage, despite this being a very requested feature. You can just do away with the inventory slot usage altogether by making bait choice a toggle. Just imagine the bait window right now having all the baits and then like 5 client-side chosen favorites at the top.

This is one of a dozen issues with fishing that can be easily fixed. A major overhaul should be done just because it's so easy, but fishing remains the least polished and poorly implemented system in the game. With recent "changes" that are half-baked like spearfishing, it's also now fragmented with every fishing related thing having issues.

And then you have the apologists who refuse to acknowledge that it's all an extremely broken system because they suffered through it, so must everyone else, but in reality that just means nobody actually does fishing. Things like ocean fishing are just "throw line and catch stuff" for the majority of people who do it, with the handful of achievements being fairly easy to get without coordination, and very easy with coordination. But none of those people know the pain of trying to catch a bunch of big fish and needing to use external tools to track windows with multiple bags reserved for bait, or trying to farm specific fish for the 0.1% that are actually useful where there's no bait/timing combination that gives good yield with a deterministic result, so you're forced to sit there just waiting on RNG rolls which is.. I think you would find widely considered to be among the worst ways to design anything.

Nah, fishing definitely isn't perfect and I agree it needs to be changed. It's not extremely broken and if you actually talked to fishers, you'd find that they WANT more people to get into fishing, they want it to be approachable. There's a LOT of people who fish.

Fishing isn't suffering. Fisher's who say they suffered do it to themselves; the game doesn't do it to them.

All the suggestions in here just are bad, remove the core identity of the fishing minigame, or, more specifically, seem to be driven by a desire to make optional content they don't even know easier so players can spend a couple days grinding it out for a title they'll never wear or care about just to watch a funny number go up.

[Plastics]

Nah, fishing definitely isn't perfect and I agree it needs to be changed. It's not extremely broken and if you actually talked to fishers, you'd find that they WANT more people to get into fishing, they want it to be approachable. There's a LOT of people who fish.

Fishing isn't suffering. Fisher's who say they suffered do it to themselves; the game doesn't do it to them.

All the suggestions in here just are bad, remove the core identity of the fishing minigame, or, more specifically, seem to be driven by a desire to make optional content they don't even know easier so players can spend a couple days grinding it out for a title they'll never wear or care about just to watch a funny number go up.

The vast, vast majority of people who play this game don't fish, or try it and immediately stop. The only exception to this is ocean fishing precisely because none of the terrible design of fishing is apparent there.

If there wasn't an achievement attached to the big fish, none of the people who do that would either. Again, this is gatekeeping, you'd be upset someone did what you did but without the pain, so they're not allowed to do it. Just like WoW players aren't allowed to boost, and nobody is allowed to skip cutscenes.

[Fruity_Snacks]

The vast, vast majority of people who play this game don't fish, or try it and immediately stop. The only exception to this is ocean fishing precisely because none of the terrible design of fishing is apparent there.

If there wasn't an achievement attached to the big fish, none of the people who do that would either. Again, this is gatekeeping, you'd be upset someone did what you did but without the pain, so they're not allowed to do it. Just like WoW players aren't allowed to boost, and nobody is allowed to skip cutscenes.

Anyways, I think you miss my point. I wouldn't be upset if people do what I did with less or no pain. I want people to be able to enjoy fishing and go for big fish. I don't want people to suffer through fishing. I've been making how-to guides for over a year on how to catch the most painful fish in the game, because I know it's a gatekeeping thing, and that there's frustration behind it. I do want fishing to change.

The only thing I'm stuck on is the suggestions to "remove bait" or "make it like spearfishing." These aren't suggestions that will get more people to fish, or make it easier, or less frustrating. These are just suggestions because you (the royal you, not just you specifically) don't like something and just want it to be "a normal gatherer."

If folks start suggesting things like "hey, it would be cool if fish should have more generous windows (so you don't have to wait 2 weeks for every fish)" or "the game needs better ways of convey which bait works best which what fish (so you don't have to look it up on teamcraft or something)" or "hey, there needs to be some ways to help me better understand what fish I might be getting at this hole (technically, that's already in game via the Release List skill... but besides the point)" -- then I'll start pushing back.

One last point of note - the terrible game design that you and others continue to bring up IS in Ocean Fishing. The fish in there are affected by all the same things that you see in the normal world: bait, weather, time, type of hole your fishing in, etc. It's all there, it's standard rod fishing.

[Tyonto]

You can just do away with the inventory slot usage altogether by making bait choice a toggle. Just imagine the bait window right now having all the baits and then like 5 client-side chosen favorites at the top.

Okay, but this is not keeping the current Bait & Tackle menu as-is but with all baits available, which was the exact suggestion I replied to and therefore exactly what my response addressed.

The only exception to this is ocean fishing precisely because none of the terrible design of fishing is apparent there.

Is that true?

Ocean fishing has multiple baits. There are three ocean fishing-specific baits. There are also six other baits that are not specific to ocean fishing that are used in it. These can each catch a handful of fish in spectral currents and are each required to catch one fish. That's nine usable baits, which is the same amount that are usable in each expansion individually.
Those six non-ocean fishing baits are of various levels and some are freshwater baits. Ocean fishing is the only piece of fishing content that uses bait this way; everywhere else follows the sensible conventions that the bait tooltips provide in regards to where baits can be used. How does it make sense that some freshwater baits work there?

It has "Time Frames" instead windows based on Eorzea time. In spectral currents, some fish are only available during specific Time Frames. There is never a time where every fish in a spectral current will be available. Since it operates on a schedule, a boat with a fish that you want or need on it may not be available during a good time for you for days or more than a week.

It has weathers and some fish are not available to be caught during weather conditions. This is prohibitive because some bonuses are just not going to be able to be completed if you don't get a spectral current (which is up to RNG) if you get a certain weather that removes two or three fish. All but one area has this possibility.
One of the group bonus achievements is made remarkably harder if you get bad weather in one zone; bad weather completely removes the easiest fish to catch for it.

You can isolate fish based on bait usage and timing, just like you can fish fishing elsewhere. This allows you to identify with certainty which fish are biting. This is the purpose of multiple bait, in fishing everywhere. In ocean fishing this is particularly pronounced and bait selection is highly impactful and not at all frivolous, even though each ocean fishing bait can catch most ocean fishing fish. Each bait in each area has different bite timings on the fish. If you want to fish more efficiently, score well or complete an objective, bait choice is highly important. The difference in outcome between someone who understands what bait to use and the timings compared to someone who does not is vast.

[ACE135]

I don't think fisher needs a total overhaul. Often players don't want to deal with how a certain class works or "learn how to play" it.

I think the gatherer and crafter classes shouldn't always be reworked just to get people into the class who don't even have interest in it in the first place. Many players do level the gatherers and crafters not because they want to gather or craft, but because they just want to have them at level cap. And after that they won't touch them ever again. Now with Ishgard Restoration and Ocean Fishing many players did decide for themself that now is a good point to level them because it is super easy with said content.

For me, to catch the big fishes all the requirements as weather, time and many baits can remain as they are. Big fishes are something where you have to know the class and how everything works. Just like how expert recipes are not for everyone and you have to know how crafting works. If I can't do it and don't want to learn how it works then I just won't do it instead of pleading for a change to make it easyer for the unwilling.

[Illmaeran]

The only changes I'd like to see made would be getting rid of bait in favor of using only lures that have to be crafted rather than purchased from a vendor. This would not only cut down on inventory space, but would improve the situation for crafters as well.

[Thamorian]

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I'b be happy if SE just got rid of this BS mechanic. It's not fun or relaxing. It's aggravating and infuriating.

Anyways, I think you miss my point. I wouldn't be upset if people do what I did with less or no pain. I want people to be able to enjoy fishing and go for big fish. I don't want people to suffer through fishing. I've been making how-to guides for over a year on how to catch the most painful fish in the game, because I know it's a gatekeeping thing, and that there's frustration behind it. I do want fishing to change.

The only thing I'm stuck on is the suggestions to "remove bait" or "make it like spearfishing." These aren't suggestions that will get more people to fish, or make it easier, or less frustrating. These are just suggestions because you (the royal you, not just you specifically) don't like something and just want it to be "a normal gatherer."

If folks start suggesting things like "hey, it would be cool if fish should have more generous windows (so you don't have to wait 2 weeks for every fish)" or "the game needs better ways of convey which bait works best which what fish (so you don't have to look it up on teamcraft or something)" or "hey, there needs to be some ways to help me better understand what fish I might be getting at this hole (technically, that's already in game via the Release List skill... but besides the point)" -- then I'll start pushing back.

One last point of note - the terrible game design that you and others continue to bring up IS in Ocean Fishing. The fish in there are affected by all the same things that you see in the normal world: bait, weather, time, type of hole your fishing in, etc. It's all there, it's standard rod fishing.

Thanks for the video's, your videos cleared up some confusion I had about some fish.

[Calysto]

While I don't think Fishing need a total overaul ; it could use some quality of life
-The UI is outdated

-item links
-gathering search
-infos about baits/time/weather
-possibility to set an in-game alarm
-for uncaught fishes, maybe some cryptic riddle like ARR exploration nodes ?

-More fishes need to be usefull and not just sand pockets.

-Maybe a weekly turn-in of some kind ? could be nice to FSH and/or the marketboard. (ex: turn up to 100 fishes a week for a chance at some mascots/glams) kinda like fashion repport

The kit itself could use a bit of balancing regardng cost/recast/durations of some actions ; but EW removal of HQ gathering will probably affect FSH a lot ; next week LL should give us some infos about that.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Thanks for the video's, your videos cleared up some confusion I had about some fish.

You're welcome

... but EW removal of HQ gathering will probably affect FSH a lot...

It actually probably won't change things at all. Size already determines if a fish is HQ or not (and its collectability rate is just size x10), so they'll probably just swap "HQ" for <whatever the new name of the metric is> and literally leave the mechanic as is. Obviously won't know for sure until the 5th, but that's what I'm putting my money down on.