Updates to the Prohibited Activities in FINAL FANTASY XIV and Account Penalty Policy

[rewd]

Yoshi has no issues with someone explaining a fight's mechanics, as long as they do it politely. It's players trashing another player for making mistakes that will get you in trouble.

In the following example, player A is excessively criticising player B. If player B is not asking for any advice, player A cannot force player B to play a specific way. This type of situation can be determined as an act of excessive criticism.

Player A: B, you're doing this part wrong.
Player B: I understand, I'll try harder.
Player A: You understand the mechanics? Want me to teach you?
Player B: I do understand, I'm OK. Thank you.
Player A: You sure you understand? You keep on screwing up. You should do [something] on [something].
Player B: I understand, I'm sorry.
Player A: You sure? If you don't know let me know, ok? B, you're screwing up so many times, you're really dragging this out for us.
Player B: I'm sorry.

This will get you in trouble. I guess "Want me to teach you?" and "If you don't know let me know, ok?" is rude. It's also nice to know that one player is free to keep failing a mechanic and you can't "force" them to do it right otherwise you become the bad one. Just wipe. And again. Endlessly. You are objectively dragging the party down? It's ok, just keep doing it.

Wow, really can't wait to pug next raid tier.

[ZedxKayn]

I didn't know telling someone that they "shouldn't join a certain party if they can't do a certain mechanic" is considered being a rude mean human being with awful social skills to some people.

[Hatfright]

This will get you in trouble. I guess "Want me to teach you?" and "If you don't know let me know, ok?" is rude.

This is not rude. What's rude in the example is the following "are you sure, you're screwing up". Person B said "I'm sorry", and yet again was hit with "you sure?". Player can be pretty much aware what they are doing wrong, know the mechanic, but may be not able to execute it in time. People also have a different learning ability, different reaction time, some people learn mechanics better if they wipe to it a few times. There's nothing tragic about it and there's no need to get on peoples backs constantly questioning their competence. If anything, all that does is invokes "Now I'm gonna do it just to irritate you" mode. Which frees your hands to kick said person, I suppose.

I know someone's gonna hit me with "But Sonooo, what if it's their 30 time doing it wrong". So what?
Is it DF duty? Then you stop raising them and carry on, there's nothing in DF that requires every single player in party/alliance to play perfectly. Yes it will be longer, but you'll save a lot of nerves not only to them, but to yourself as well. Okay, there's Mentor Roullete, I guess, but then can always vote abandon and if that won't work, leave.
Is it PF? If it's learning party: if player says they understand, stop explaining. If they fail again, ask what went wrong and how they think they can improve. If you don't have patience to do so, or if it's a farm party, say something like "I'm sorry, guys, I don't feel like we're doing it today", leave the duty, kick person in question or disband and start again. That's it.

[rewd]

This is not rude. What's rude in the example is the following "are you sure, you're screwing up". Person B said "I'm sorry", and yet again was hit with "you sure?". Player can be pretty much aware what they are doing wrong, know the mechanic, but may be not able to execute it in time. People also have a different learning ability, different reaction time, some people learn mechanics better if they wipe to it a few times. There's nothing tragic about it and there's no need to get on peoples backs constantly questioning their competence. If anything, all that does is invokes "Now I'm gonna do it just to irritate you" mode. Which frees your hands to kick said person, I suppose.

It's emblematic that you conveniently dodged the talk about harder content.

In the following example, player A is excessively criticising player B. If player B is not asking for any advice, player A cannot force player B to play a specific way.

You need to play a specific way if you want to clear harder content. If you keep failing a mechanic, I'll have to make sure that you know what to do. I'll have to tell you to play in a specific way. If you can't do it, it's fine, but you don't belong in the party. It should be the party's right to politely call you out and make you understand that you are dragging it down.

there's nothing in DF that requires every single player in party/alliance to play perfectly.

Go do Zurvan Extreme and tell me about all your clears when the party doesn't play perfectly. or Sephirot Extreme.

[Nibelung_Valesti]

People have the right to learn and have fun. Many will likely come in brand new without prior experience and knowledge. I don't agree with your self-proclaimed right to stomp on them just because you don't want to let them learn the encounter and be part of the group.

[rewd]

People have the right to learn and have fun. Many will likely come in brand new without prior experience and knowledge. I don't agree with your self-proclaimed right to stomp on them just because you don't want to let them learn the encounter and be part of the group.

I wish there was a function called "Party Finder" that let everyone create a group tailored to their skills, needs and expectations so that they wouldn't feel so entitled and hijack other people's parties.

[Tsumdere]

It's emblematic that you conveniently dodged the talk about harder content.



You need to play a specific way if you want to clear harder content. If you keep failing a mechanic, I'll have to make sure that you know what to do. I'll have to tell you to play in a specific way. If you can't do it, it's fine, but you don't belong in the party. It should be the party's right to politely call you out and make you understand that you are dragging it down.



Go do Zurvan Extreme and tell me about all your clears when the party doesn't play perfectly. or Sephirot Extreme.

If a person does not want to play the way hard content is meant to be played or follow the decisions of the majority of the group, the kick option is still available. Differences in Playstyle is a reason provided in the kick function. You let them know once how a mechanic works, or ask them once if they need some help with a mechanic, and if they decline you may remove them. In none of that interaction is there a need to add extra flair like "you're screwing up" or "we can't clear with you".

[rewd]

If a person does not want to play the way hard content is meant to be played or follow the decisions of the majority of the group, the kick option is still available. Differences in Playstyle is a reason provided in the kick function. You let them know once how a mechanic works, or ask them once if they need some help with a mechanic, and if they decline you may remove them. In none of that interaction is there a need to add extra flair like "you're screwing up" or "we can't clear with you".

You can't explain a mechanic. You need to make a suggestion and see if everyone agrees, even if that's the only way to do it:

Example of a violation:

"We can only beat [duty/content] by using [something]. You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"

Example of a non-violation:

"I think [duty/content] will go more smoothly if we do [something], so I want to try doing it this way, is that okay with everyone?"

You can't kick someone just because they are doing something in a different way. You may offer advice, but they are free to ignore it:

* It is not a violation to offer advice when pointing out issues; however, it should be treated as advice only and not something that must be followed. You cannot force someone to play a certain way without the consent of both parties. If such a situation does arise, it could be determined to be giving excessive criticism against that player.

[Hatfright]

It's emblematic that you conveniently dodged the talk about harder content.

Go do Zurvan Extreme and tell me about all your clears when the party doesn't play perfectly. or Sephirot Extreme.

I mentioned the exeption that is Mentor roullete. And please don't go in the direction "You didn't clear this and that, so shut up", it's getting old.

I'd like to point out that I critisize not giving advice in general and asking if there's any questions, but the example we both keep using. w/o all that dancing aroung it pretty much this:
— You got it?
— Yeah, I got it, I'll try harder
— You sure? You keep messing up, it's so and so.
— Yeah, sorry.
— You sure?
— Sorry.

Why the need to point out that all they did is mess up again, when they already said, they'll try? I don't think anyone would be happy with someone questioning their ability to understand stuff after every missplay. Yes, it is irritating to start again and again, but jfc, some people have so little patience, it's ridiculous.

All I said in my PF section applies to anything: in case of communication, proggin dungeons is no different from Ex/Savage. It's all boiled down to expectations. If your desirable speed of complection ain't achievable with current party, you can leave and find another one. Noone forces you to stay. There's no need to get on people's nerves with asking again and again and again "Do you understand?" when they already said they do, but can't seem to quite get there in time. It is irritating and never achieves what people think it should achieve. If it keeps happening, your best bet is disband and start again, not fingerpointing.

I'd also like to apologize (language difference and late night in my timezone), cuz I didn't read your post as a whole and mostly got cought by the example itself. For the part of "apparently you can't give advice now", I think people are jumping to the extremes here. With almost 4 years in this game behind my back, I've only seen exactly one example of someone not doing things if you ask them politely first, and that'll be my not so recent ARR Shiva, on normal at that. I've yet to find people screwing up with malicious intent in Ex. Heck, not so long ago I've run Tsuky Ex with people whos dps was on a lower specter, and had to explain meteors and dark/bright blades more than a few times. Not a single person complained about wipes, and we got there in the end.

[Roda]

You need to play a specific way if you want to clear harder content. If you keep failing a mechanic, I'll have to make sure that you know what to do. I'll have to tell you to play in a specific way. If you can't do it, it's fine, but you don't belong in the party. It should be the party's right to politely call you out and make you understand that you are dragging it down.

Examples of absolutely true things the game asks of you:



And I'm gonna be honest. Sometimes I'm dense and can't see something. I super appreciate it when someone personalizes their advice to help me figure out a mechanic. Their examples all assume the everyone knows what's going on and that the next pull will be just peachy, and that's not always the case. A lot of times people can get stuck on a solution that isn't effective 'cause they're just missing a piece of the puzzle.

I'm really hoping this line:


does a lot of work on non-JP datacenters, 'cause the way I see it, talking to me directly is polite, and talking around me but still about me is rude as hell.