Updates to the Prohibited Activities in FINAL FANTASY XIV and Account Penalty Policy

[Krotoan]

Okay so I took a look at the actual new rules. There is some good and some bad. But I'm very concerned with the "Nuisance behavior" section.

Here are a few examples of things that are called out as prohibited:


Statements such as "you're bad at [something]," or "you're not getting [something] at all"
blaming and attacking others, such as "It's [player name]'s fault that we wiped" or "You really make a lot of mistakes,"
"your glamour is terrible, you should quit the game," or "the way you talk disgusts me."
Statements such as "people like you will never get better"
it is prohibited to make statements such as "why aren't you doing [specific thing]? Everyone knows that's how you do this!"
"There is nothing wrong with providing suggestions that the player community typically follows, but this can only be presented in the form of a "suggestion" and cannot be in the form of a demand"
Statements such as "how can you screw up on something so simple that no one else messes up?" are prohibited.
Statements such as "you're bad at [something]," or "you're not getting [something] at all" are prohibited



Player A: B, you're doing this part wrong.
Player B: I understand, I'll try harder.
Player A: You understand the mechanics? Want me to teach you?
Player B: I do understand, I'm OK. Thank you.
Player A: You sure you understand? You keep on screwing up. You should do [something] on [something].
Player B: I understand, I'm sorry.
Player A: You sure? If you don't know let me know, ok? B, you're screwing up so many times, you're really dragging this out for us.
Player B: I'm sorry.

This is apparently a reportable offense by Player A.

Because player A is targeting someone. If you simply state what is being failed without specifying whose fault it is, no problem.


you are not allowed to single out one person as the problem. ... I have no problem with this (no I am not usually the reason things fail).

[Haseno]

Because player A is targeting someone. If you simply state what is being failed without specifying whose fault it is, no problem.


you are not allowed to single out one person as the problem. ... I have no problem with this (no I am not usually the reason things fail).

As a Business Consultant. My job is to point out flaws, failures, and weak links SPECIFICALLY. As a gamer, I do this to myself daily to improve myself. In a game where it requires cooperation and a level of competitive play to achieve a mutually beneficial goal. You have an obligation to cooperate and compete at a mutually beneficial level. If you can't cooperate, and compete, and as a result you are the weak-link in that circumstance. I'm not sugarcoating it - I'm calling out the weak link.

[redheadturk]

As a Business Consultant. My job is to point out flaws, failures, and weak links SPECIFICALLY. As a gamer, I do this to myself daily to improve myself. In a game where it requires cooperation and a level of competitive play to achieve a mutually beneficial goal. You have an obligation to cooperate and compete at a mutually beneficial level. If you can't cooperate, and compete, and as a result you are the weak-link in that circumstance. I'm not sugarcoating it - I'm calling out the weak link.

In which case if they report you, you can eat the ban or warning. And tbh, I am ok with that.

[Kaurhz]

As a Business Consultant. My job is to point out flaws, failures, and weak links SPECIFICALLY. As a gamer, I do this to myself daily to improve myself. In a game where it requires cooperation and a level of competitive play to achieve a mutually beneficial goal. You have an obligation to cooperate and compete at a mutually beneficial level. If you can't cooperate, and compete, and as a result you are the weak-link in that circumstance. I'm not sugarcoating it - I'm calling out the weak link.

Furthermore, as a person, and as a person that signed the terms of service, and the 'Prohibited Activities' document, no less. You have an obligation to act in accordance with that. You have an obligation to act in accordance with their rules, and if they deem you as having infringed upon said document, then they are within their right to ban you. Funny how that works.

Call it however you wish, masquerade behind it as much as you wish. If they don't like your behaviour, or if they deem it as unfit then they can ban you, as simple as that.

[Commander_Justitia]

Furthermore, as a person, and as a person that signed the terms of service, and the 'Prohibited Activities' document, no less. You have an obligation to act in accordance with that.

Only because something is written down in a contract or similar, doesn't mean it upholds in court. This is often a problem when companies come under EU law.
Sure they can ban you probably, but they just can't write anything in there for you to follow.

The bad thing about these or already about the previous ToS changes is, that if you play much, you probably get reported naturally more too, and it just builds up (especially if you play PvP). And then its hard to tell for a GM I assume, if the person is really a bad actor or just living on the edge and still behaving. And with those 7-10 years until your ban gets cleared... it is a bit too long. Small ban offences probably should be cleared after 2-5 years latest. Maybe keep them in a log still so they can tell if its the same offence if something new happens, to punish them harder directly.

[Kaurhz]

Only because something is written down in a contract or similar, doesn't mean it upholds in court. This is often a problem when companies come under EU law.
Sure they can ban you probably, but they just can't write anything in there for you to follow.

The bad thing about these or already about the previous ToS changes is, that if you play much, you probably get reported naturally more too, and it just builds up (especially if you play PvP). And then its hard to tell for a GM I assume, if the person is really a bad actor or just living on the edge and still behaving. And with those 7-10 years until your ban gets cleared... it is a bit too long. Small ban offences probably should be cleared after 2-5 years latest. Maybe keep them in a log still so they can tell if its the same offence if something new happens, to punish them harder directly.

Well, yeah.. My point was if you do not follow their terms of service then they are well within their right to ban you, particularly if your presence does naught but cause discourse. Like I said, you signed it, you agreed to it. It's as much of an obligation for him to behave appropriately as much as the obligation it is for everyone in a group to contribute towards the best of their ability. Of course they can't write anything, but let's face it they aren't exactly being outside of reason with their requests. - Let's not have someone being selective about obligations whilst subsequently ignoring ones already established.

Wouldn't know, never had a sanction, so I find it quite ironic that people have self-proclaimed been reported and sanctioned for merely giving constructive advice. On the note of this though I think they're far too tight with their ban alleviation measures, if they want to call it that. I think they should start to go after 2 years. Gives people time to reform, and if a pattern of offences becomes apparent then just perma.

[Krotoan]

As a Business Consultant. My job is to point out flaws, failures, and weak links SPECIFICALLY. As a gamer, I do this to myself daily to improve myself. In a game where it requires cooperation and a level of competitive play to achieve a mutually beneficial goal. You have an obligation to cooperate and compete at a mutually beneficial level. If you can't cooperate, and compete, and as a result you are the weak-link in that circumstance. I'm not sugarcoating it - I'm calling out the weak link.

I have no obligation to do anything. it's a video game. Concepts of responsibility coming from the "I bow to nobody" person is pretty funny though.

[Haseno]

I have no obligation to do anything. it's a video game. Concepts of responsibility coming from the "I bow to nobody" person is pretty funny though.

The obligation doesn't come from a rule or a position of authority. The obligation comes from a position of mutual respect for the other players you're playing with.

You absolutely do have an obligation to cooperate and compete at a mutually beneficial level in an MMORPG where you join a group to complete mutually beneficial goals. That is the nature of MMORPG's and always has been, and as a consequence it requires you to compete and cooperate. It is going to require you to withstand criticism so that you don't become a burden to others.

If you refuse to cooperate.
If you can't compete.
If you can't withstand criticism from other players when you fail to to do both of those things.

Its not them being rude and inconsiderate. It's you. We don't expect every individual in-game to compete at the same level. But I do expect people to cooperate, and withstand criticism to improve upon themselves as a means of cooperation. If you can't do that, don't play MMORPG's. Go play single player games where your inconsiderate behavior and sensibilities doesn't create a burden for someone else.

Anything less than that is celebrating mediocrity, rather than striving for success. That directly affects other players experiences and gives them a negative online experience. Which I consider far more rude than someone hurting your feelings.

The irony is that all these people who defend "being nice" all the time. Are the biggest of bullies, and the most inconsiderate selfish people in the community. They'll use "being nice" as a deflection to any criticism for their own shortcomings. The only evidence you need to substantiate that claim is their eagerness to report literally anything.

SE isn't preventing bullying, and toxicity with their approach. They're only breeding a different kind.

Mutual respect is more than a one way street.

But what would I know. I've only been a community manager in 3 online gaming communities and a Lead GM in 2. I was personal friends with Brad McQuaid, and I raided in Everquest with the original creators of WoW before WoW was a thought.

[Vahlnir]

But what would I know. I've only been a community manager in 3 online gaming communities and a Lead GM in 2. I was personal friends with Brad McQuaid, and I raided in Everquest with the original creators of WoW before WoW was a thought.

You've made some wild claims, but this is probably the least believable.

[kaynide]

You've made some wild claims, but this is probably the least believable.

I was beginning to suspect it was Titanmen, but he’s got the wrong hat…