Fishing needs a total overhaul

[Plastics]

Just get rid of the concept of buying bait altogether. Bards don't have to buy arrows, MCH/GNB don't have to buy ammo, ninjas don't have to buy shurikens.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Just get rid of the concept of buying bait altogether. Bards don't have to buy arrows, MCH/GNB don't have to buy ammo, ninjas don't have to buy shurikens.

By this logic, BLU shouldn't need to have to find and earn their spells.

Seems only fair since Bards don't have to buy arrows, MCH/GNB don't have to buy ammo, ninjas don't have to buy shuriken.

[Brightamethyst]

By this logic, BLU shouldn't need to have to find and earn their spells.

Seems only fair since Bards don't have to buy arrows, MCH/GNB don't have to buy ammo, ninjas don't have to buy shuriken.

Those... aren't even remotely the same things.

[Jojoya]

Just get rid of the concept of buying bait altogether. Bards don't have to buy arrows, MCH/GNB don't have to buy ammo, ninjas don't have to buy shurikens.

None of those classes have a need to change projectile type to be able to kill specific monsters.

The last thing players should want is to have every fish caught using the same bait. RNG would make it even more difficult to go after the big game fish because that one bait would be more likely to keep pulling up the smallest and most common fish in the pond.

[Plastics]

None of those classes have a need to change projectile type to be able to kill specific monsters.

The last thing players should want is to have every fish caught using the same bait. RNG would make it even more difficult to go after the big game fish because that one bait would be more likely to keep pulling up the smallest and most common fish in the pond.

Nope, you just pick the bait attached to your rod before you cast. The current tackle box thing, but it has all the baits, and you don't ever actually carry anything. Buying bait is like buying arrows, 1990s game design.

[Fruity_Snacks]

Those... aren't even remotely the same things.

Sure it is. Plastics made a silly comparison to try and support removing one of the core mechanics and defining features of fishing. I thought it seemed only fair that if we're removing baits from fisher, we might as well remove other core, defining pillars of other classes, like collect Blue mage spells as well.

Nope, you just pick the bait attached to your rod before you cast. The current tackle box thing, but it has all the baits, and you don't ever actually carry anything. Buying bait is like buying arrows, 1990s game design.

This is a valid argument now, rather than just a single bait for all of fishing. Still have to collect baits but have a system similar to so, Bozja's or Eurekas skills, that would fly. But, are we really complaining about buying baits, or the number of bait? Bait's cheap af. If the argument is "bait is expensive" -- you have other problems than fishing. Number of bait is only an issue in ARR. Also buying bait is not like buying arrows, and I think you got a bit of a misunderstanding on how arrows work.

We'll probably never see anything like a standalone tacklebox, because why would they put inventory space into a niche thing that only a handful of people will use constantly, when they could devote the same time into just giving everyone more inventory space?


(Also some really good game design came out of the 90's, and I can name a bunch of games in the past 2 years that were very popular and still require you to buy arrows (or similar mechanic))

[Iscah]

Sure it is. Plastics made a silly comparison to try and support removing one of the core mechanics and defining features of fishing. I thought it seemed only fair that if we're removing baits from fisher, we might as well remove other core, defining pillars of other classes, like collect Blue mage spells as well.

The "core mechanic" of fisher – aside of using the right combination of skills to actually land the fish – is choosing the appropriate bait. That could (at least in theory) be achieved through a job menu rather than having to go to the shop and purchase it and store it. No other job has to constantly replenish their ability to use their skills through a method outside of their job abilities like this.

It would only be comparable to blue mage skills if blue mage had to constantly fight more of the same enemies to stock up their ability to cast that particular spell.

[Fruity_Snacks]

The "core mechanic" of fisher – aside of using the right combination of skills to actually land the fish – is choosing the appropriate bait. That could (at least in theory) be achieved through a job menu rather than having to go to the shop and purchase it and store it. No other job has to constantly replenish their ability to use their skills through a method outside of their job abilities like this.

It would only be comparable to blue mage skills if blue mage had to constantly fight more of the same enemies to stock up their ability to cast that particular spell.

I'll concede on BLU, it was a dumb jab at what I feel is a tiny, if not irrelevant (and honestly, dumb) issue with Fishing. Fishing has got issues, having to buy bait is not one of them.

But to your point, no combat classes have to go out to a shop to replenish stuff. But it's present in other parts of the game. Every job has to replenish lost skills in Bozja. Using your argument, I would say that picking the right skills is a core mechanic of doing Bozja/Zadnor/DR/Eureka/etc. Should we also just make it so that you can just pick a skill and get rid of the amount of them you have? The unlocking? To get the skills I have to go and do the content in the zone, or I can buy the artifacts and hope to get it. They cost more to get than fishing bait, both in gil cost (if buying) and time. -- if that sounds really dumb, that's how the argument to remove bait sounds to me (someone who's fished up easily 45k fish).

Fishing bait is cheap. Need to make space? Chuck it. Not sure what to use? Ask someone, read the descriptions, check online. Unless your going for big/legendary fish, you only need 1 type of bait, the Versatile Lure. That's it. Pick up 20 in Limsa down by the Ocean Fishing dock and that will be all you'll ever need. Costs you 6,000 gil. I'll spot you. Heck, it'll even catch some big fish.

I'm just having trouble seeing the arguments against bait buying or why would people want to get rid of the need to buy bait - or even the need for bait in general? Is it Convenience? Gil? Too many types of bait to find? You just don't like Fishing and want it to be like every other DoL in the game? Do you want bait to be gatherable or earned through turn ins? There's an answer to all of this.

As Canadane says, Fishing is different from all other jobs, it always has been and always should be.

Post Edit:

I would also say that for some later game fish/patch fish -- earning the baits is a core mechanic too. It would nerf every legendary fish, and a good portion of big fish if we just were given unlimited supplies of the bait.

[Iscah]

I'm just having trouble seeing the arguments against bait buying or why would people want to get rid of the need to buy bait - or even the need for bait in general? Is it Convenience? Gil? Too many types of bait to find? You just don't like Fishing and want it to be like every other DoL in the game? Do you want bait to be gatherable or earned through turn ins? There's an answer to all of this.

Simple enough – have it all on hand as a built-in ability of the job, like the gig heads for spearfishing. No simplification, no dumbing down, no overreaching accusations. Just remove the need for it to take up double the inventory space of other jobs by requiring you to carry both bait and caught fish.

If you need a shortlist, it could be handled something like BLU's spells where you have a larger stock in reserve but only nominate the specific few baits you want to see at the moment. Maybe you put them as separate hotbar abilities and do away with the tackle box altogether.

[Tyonto]

Nope, you just pick the bait attached to your rod before you cast. The current tackle box thing, but it has all the baits, and you don't ever actually carry anything.

Something overlooked with this is swapping baits. What you choose to carry on your person (therefore, what shows up in the Bait & Tackle window) is also a strategic choice. Having all baits available at all times with the current Bait & Tackle menu would be a nightmare in many scenarios, and on some notably difficult fish too.

There are multiple Fisher's Intuition fish that require one bait for the fish to trigger it and then another for the Intuition fish. Some Intuitions are extremely short and making sure you can swap easily between the baits you need in order to not waste time is a conscious choice, by choosing what bait you carry on you. Currently, you can deliberately choose to make sure you have at most one page of bait in your inventory and have the two baits near each other by adjusting what you carry. Having all baits available would result in many scenarios where the baits you need to quickly switch between would not be on the same page and would make the act of swapping baits slower, burning time on some Intuitions that are as short as 15 seconds long so there's no time to waste.

As Fisher has continued to get more complex, there are more and more incentives to being well-prepared before a fish window. ShB skills encourage this now more than ever. Being prepared with the proper bait in adequate quantities is just a part of being prepared as well.