Fishing needs a total overhaul

[ArianeEwah]

Honestly, just tweaking a few actions wouldn't cut it. The whole sea of fish has to be adjusted or some fish needs to be cut/deleted or tuned down.
atm (Patch 5.55) there are more than one THOUSAND different kind of fish to catch - even if you don't count in spearfishing.

I want to give two... no, three examples of what's most wrong with fish(ing)

1. Too many useless "common" fishes:
The most annoying kind of fish. There are usually 1-2 of those in every area. e.g. Rak'tika Greatwood: Yellow Pipira and Clawbow. Both serve no purpose other than filling ALL Greatwood fishing spots as most common fishes. No useful desyn, no mooch options, nothing of value (such as leve or job quest). Even worse: when you mooch for bigger fish, they are also a common result, just adding to their annonyance level.
The best example is Lake Tusi Mek'ta: For the Priest (big fish) you need: Clown Tetra -> Eryops -> Priest of Yx'Lokwa
Yellow Pipira and Clawbow are common and often take your bait during Clown Tetra's cast time window (they are only ~3s apart), but even if you happen to get a Clown Tetra, and mooch it, Yellow Pipira might take the bait AGAIN. There is neither a bait that's only (or mostly) biten by Clown Tetra nor an action that prevents Yellow Pipira from taking the mooched fish. But that's not all, I will take on this spot later.

2. Big fish that require long or hard (difficult/rng) preparation:
Take Warden of the Seven Hues (Prism Lake/Yanxia) for example: You need 3 prismfishes from mooch options, each during 0-4 ET and 4-8 ET, and your chances for getting the right ones are ~12-17% (getting the right one is 33% or 25% if green Prismfish is also active - maybe less -> 50% once mooched), and you need 6 in total (2x3), additionally, you need 5 green ones during 0-16 ET and the right weather. So, you have ~11min to get 3 Indigo and 3 Firelight fish each, and at least ~22min for 5 Green. Thus, your prep time is roughtly - and most likely - 30min... well, that means IF you didn't fail to get 3 of the first 2 fishes in time (I have failed probably 3 windows because e.g. I didn't get 3 Indigo 'cause of no violets, or White Goldfishes take the bite after mooch first.)
Once you fulfill all requirements, you get the 2min 55s Intuition buff, and now you have a CHANCE to catch the Warden (no idea what the real chances are). So, you spend all of your GP on Chum, maybe one Surface Slap... oh, no bite? Too bad. Oh, you had a bite? Too bad, it got away. What, you were lucky and had more than bite? Too bad, all got AWAY.
THIS should not be a thing. You need more than 30min, just to get a (few) chance(s)? The catch rate should be (at least close to) 100% once you have min. gathering.

3. Big fish as requirement for... big fish:
Yes, I am looking at you Ruby Dragon. Apparently someone in SqEx thought for Stormblood it was a brilliant idea to set big fish as requirement for another big fish, either as Intuition buff (catch one or two + other fish) or as mooch bait.
So, let me get this straight... someone over there... actually thought... "Hey, you know those big fish with probably less than 10% bite rate, and less than 50% chance to NOT get away, yeah? How about we put another big fish on top of these big fish with the same rates?! Our fisher players are going to love it! This might be the best idea maybe ever!"...? /irony off
Unfortunately, this didn't stop with Stormblood (or just Ruby Dragon). Now, let's go back to the fishing spot of Lake Tusi Mek'ta: In 5.55 they introduced the Greater Serpent as a new big fish... with Priest as its bait... wow, HALLELUJA! It's already bad enough with just getting the Priest hooked, but now you have to mooch it for the Serpent? In less than 6min? Holy moly, pray to our bois YoshiP and RNjesus, and take on your seat belt, this gonna be a looong ride! (other examples are Lancetfish in the Tempest (needs 2 Mora Tecta), Aquamaton in Kholusia (1 Shadeshifter + 5 Shapeshifter) and Listracanthus (req. Jaws of Undeath as mooched bait).

Now add any other elements into this: short time window, long cast time, rare time window (some take weeks to be active), low hook rate, low catch rate, or any combination of those. Many of those big fish require weeks or even months to catch (only one of ~12 guys got Cinder surprise in the last window I took part of, and they told us, they were on this one since the patch - almost 3 months!) This takes longer than your average Ultimate prog!

[Garnix]

1. Too many useless "common" fishes:
2. Big fish that require long or hard (difficult/rng) preparation:
3. Big fish as requirement for... big fish:

Now add any other elements into this: short time window, long cast time, rare time window (some take weeks to be active), low hook rate, low catch rate, or any combination of those. Many of those big fish require weeks or even months to catch (only one of ~12 guys got Cinder surprise in the last window I took part of, and they told us, they were on this one since the patch - almost 3 months!) This takes longer than your average Ultimate prog!

1) While I think more fish should be useful in recipes and things like that, the ones in Lake Tusi Mek'ta are not an issue.
Getting the Eryops is basically the biggest "RNG challenge" in this specific spot. Once you have this one, both the priest and the serpent of Ronka are guaranteed to bite...
+ you can prepare an HQ Eryops prior to the priest fishing window's opening. That's how I got my serpent of Ronka this morning after only 6 attempts at it.

2) With this I agree, the ones that have you stuck in one area for a few hours suck are poorly designed.

3) Also not an issue. The rare frequency of the Ruby Dragon is what makes it tedious, not the fact that you need another big fish to get it. Especially considering the big fish is not hard to catch at all.
There are a few similar fish in 5.5, and they are mostly fine IMO because they pop multiple times a day.

4) It doesn't take nearly as long as Ultimate prog. Yes it can take 3 months, but you can only try it for about 10 minutes a week, maybe less. So I don't see the problem with that.


I understand your criticism, but I don't understand what your solution is. Reducing any aspect of RNG? Making all the fish easier to get? Isn't it specifically what they have done for the ARR/HW fish?...
It just sounds like you are forcing yourself to try enjoying big fishing when it's clearly not for you.

[ArianeEwah]

1) The ones in Lake Tusi Mek'ta are not an issue.

2) The ones that have you stuck in one area for a few hours suck are poorly designed.

3) The rare frequency of the Ruby Dragon is what makes it tedious, not the fact that you need another big fish to get it.

4) It doesn't take nearly as long as Ultimate prog. Yes it can take 3 months, but you can only try it for about 10 minutes a week, maybe less. So I don't see the problem with that.

1. Lake Tusi Mek'ta was just an example (maybe not a good one). My point is that those common fish are found everywhere, and make it almost borderline infuriating for general fishing. As you also said, they are not even needed for simple recipes.

And you are rather lucky, getting it on your 6 attempt (tho, I gotta ask, what's 6 attempts? Windows or bites?). In my case, I've had probably 6-8 windows already (or more, I didn't keep track of it), some in which I don't even get Clown Tetra in the first place, even with 5 min prep before the window... I would call myself lucky getting 2 bites in my very first window, but the recent 5+ windows, the priest always got away. So, maybe I am just unlucky?

But this is just point 1. There are multiple other places with ~6-10 different fish, even for 1 type of bait, 1 or 2 fishes are really common, you can at least surface slap one, but there are still 5+ other fish you "have to get through". Reducing the total number by 1 or 2 wouldn't hurt.

3. My point here is just the low catch rate on big fish for them being a requirement, which in itself is fine, but becomes an issue once you add in more conditions such as short time windows.

4. Well, if we are talking about ARR fish, true, that doesn't take as long as Ultimate, I got them all - minus a few I got for the big fish quest way back - probably after 2-4 weeks of intense fishing, some days non-stop fishing for hours (tho, we have to acknowledge that they got nerfed hard with all those 50+ actions such as [Surface Slap], [Patiance], and [Chum]). But atm, I am yet to clear HW fish, because of 2 very particular ones; one of them being Sea Butterfly... oh, Sea Butterfly... had my very first 2 bites recently after like 15+ windows... both got away. And I try it almost every single day - well, as long as I can manage it with my worktime. For a good month now, I am yet to get this fish? With the knowledge I have about this particular one, and how I am out-gear'ing it, shouldn't I already have it? Or just pray more to RNJesus? (No offense, I am just frustrated about that one... asking the big fish question... bad-dum-tss)

My most important point is: A few layers of rng are okay in my eyes. What's not okay, is the sheer amount of requiments and conditions, including multiple layers of RNG, on almost every single (late patch) big fish there is from late HW onwards.
I don't have any issue with fish those windows rarely occour, if there ain't 10 different kind of fish on the same spot, or its low bite/catch rate.
I don't have any issue with fish those catch and/or bite rates are low, as long as I can try the whole day.
What grinds my gears, are big fish that 1. have rare frequency, + 2. short time window, + 3. low bite rate (rare among other fishes), + 4. low catch rate (gets away easily despite ~BiS gear), + 5. lost casting time + etc.
Especially those late patch fish seem to fill the role of "you have weeks or months til the next expac, so here you have something to try and get your hands on in the meantime", while also including them in achievements, and without even nerf'ing them the next expac.
It's like the climax of a series, but it the episodes are streching without anything really happening, recaps etc. Dragonball Freeza "The planet explodes in 5 minutes" darg, anyone?

It's stacking layers on each other that makes certain fish more than just "tendious", but rather impossible. As I told of the guy in my last post - who finally got Cinder surprise after months since the patch got out - it is indeed worse than Ultimate prog, unless you are really lucky.
For my part, I believe knowledge should bring you close into getting results, but rn it feels like RNG is what you are relying on.
If you just have really bad luck on fish X, you might not even get it in 5 years!

To wrap it up: Yes, I would reduce some aspect of RNG. Make knowledge about time, weather, bait etc. and gear at least feel more important than just bare mininum preparation.

And yeah, maybe I don't have the patience (no pun intended) for big fishing. Yet, I feel I should speak now, before they have the glorious idea to chain hook big fish on big fish on big fish (add more as you like), adding on weather conditions that get more rare by the step, on even shorter timing windows with long cast times etc.!
Calling it now, by the way!

Edit: I believe it would be less tendrious if you could use Identical Cast on big fish to get intuition buffs or keep the IC buff rolling for mooch options. Or you can Surface Slap some of the mooch options (e.g. Stormfish in Tempest). Or a new action that keeps your hook chain rolling, or a one-try repeat on CD like Mooch II.