I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.

[Novak_04]

Just gonna leave this right here:

Hi. How are you? I've recently joined the game with many of my friends and so took the time ask the majority of my dark knight friends what do they think their class needs.

Link to post (made on 9/28/21):https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...52#post5670252

Followed by:

thats wonderful about ff14. you can switch other jobs. i mained white mage 8 or so years.

[IckeDerTyp]

I'll like what I like. Same with you!

And to me, pressing two buttons and an occasional 3rd, isn't really what I enjoy!

Glad you're happy with glare tho!

[VictoriaLuv]

meaningful downtime? what job are you playing have ever did any 8 man contect. where shit goes south quick only person keep the team healed battle-ready is you? have ever had your team wipe your last man standing had carry whole team until you get limitbreak 3 pull a save out your backside. when it should of been a wipe. or forced into a healing check. where boss lowers everyone hp to 1 and two healers have heal everyone 100% or ppl didnt would die.

every 2 mins are you serious? are have done any 8 man raids or 24 man raids. where 1 single aoe lowers everyones health 60% and everyones running around willy nilly while desperately trying do mechanics and heal them up while pumping out raises left and right cause someone unfornately died. to mechanic could get out of and rescues on cooldown.

you rather pump out dps then actually heal do your job are you serious? rather them force healers to heal more. make bosses hit extremely hard more often force healers to heal. then support then im casting glare 80% of the time we need heal value to increase.

nothing replaces those times feelings that healer job brings this what should focus on. thrill of being good healer. skill of being a good healer. don't care if have 2-3 buttons its not important to me. important is that do my job adjust to my team. i have one purpose 1 thats make sure that support my team whatever means ness. i mean you have 4 other dps and 2 tanks literly mostly made damage skills. your roll as healer should never be dps first heal second or not heal at all

[SaberMaxwell]

*Imagine* having a different opinion to OP. The sheer audacity of it.

[Novak_04]

i have one purpose 1 thats make sure that support my team whatever means ness.

Exactly. Whatever means necessary. And most of the time, the way to do this is to dps. You're talking a big game about 8-man and 24-man content, but from the scenarios you're describing, I have to wonder if these are pug groups. In statics, you don't have to worry about some of the stuff you're talking about. Outside of prog, the goal is to be flawless, and most -- if not all -- harder content demands perfection. When that condition is met, there are large gaps between unavoidable damage where there is no need for healing. Perhaps you should watch some savage raids on YouTube from a healer PoV. Watch how often they actually use their heals -- but more importantly, watch how often they actually need to use their heals.

[CrimsonGunner]

meaningful downtime? what job are you playing have ever did any 8 man contect. where shit goes south quick only person keep the team healed battle-ready is you? have ever had your team wipe your last man standing had carry whole team until you get limitbreak 3 pull a save out your backside. when it should of been a wipe. or forced into a healing check. where boss lowers everyone hp to 1 and two healers have heal everyone 100% or ppl didnt would die.

every 2 mins are you serious? are have done any 8 man raids or 24 man raids. where 1 single aoe lowers everyones health 60% and everyones running around willy nilly while desperately trying do mechanics and heal them up while pumping out raises left and right cause someone unfornately died. to mechanic could get out of and rescues on cooldown.

nothing replaces those times feelings that healer job brings this what should focus on. thrill of being good healer. skill of being a good healer. don't care if have 2-3 buttons its not important to me. important is that do my job adjust to my team. i have one purpose 1 thats make sure that support my team whatever means ness.

yes its called doing extreme and savage and guess what we done them and quite easily.

shit hits the fan called doing prog in savage, get limit break 3 to save everyone yea its doing lions at e12s which we did when needed, having everyone hp down to 1 and save everyone before aoe or doom, have you done e12s part 2/ SOS EX/ or cid boss fight in ivalic raid cause we did it was one part and working with your co healer you basically do maybe 1-2 heals and the rest is just simply glare,glare,glare.

nothing does replace that feeling which rarely and i mean rarely comes cause you know why it rarely comes its because people learn fights, they learn and you the healer are needed less and less until you basically have no need to almost heal. agree you have one purpose and that is to support your team, you make sure they live and the second guess what that is.... you basically help them finish the job as fast as you can so basicaly when you dont heal "YOU DPS THE SHIT OUT OF THE BOSS AND BUFF YOUR ALLIES BUT IF THAT TIME WAS SO LITTLE WHY DO YOU HAVE 70+% TIME TO ACTUALLY DO THAT INSTEAD OF HEALS AND IF YOU HAVE THAT MUCH TIME TO DO DAMAGE WHY MUST U HAVE 1 BUTTON TO PRESS THE ENTIRE TIME YOU CALL THAT FUN I CALL THAT PUT THAT PLASTIC BIRD ON MY KEYBOARD AND I GO AFK"

seriously read the comment and as i saw another post you made on smn and someone said you posted it on drk as well ,i am starting to doubt if you actually main whm and those are legit concerns you have

[Saefinn]

meaningful downtime? what job are you playing have ever did any 8 man contect. where shit goes south quick only person keep the team healed battle-ready is you? have ever had your team wipe your last man standing had carry whole team until you get limitbreak 3 pull a save out your backside. when it should of been a wipe. or forced into a healing check. where boss lowers everyone hp to 1 and two healers have heal everyone 100% or ppl didnt would die.

every 2 mins are you serious? are have done any 8 man raids or 24 man raids. where 1 single aoe lowers everyones health 60% and everyones running around willy nilly while desperately trying do mechanics and heal them up while pumping out raises left and right cause someone unfornately died. to mechanic could get out of and rescues on cooldown.

you rather pump out dps then actually heal do your job are you serious? rather them force healers to heal more. make bosses hit extremely hard more often force healers to heal. then support then im casting glare 80% of the time we need heal value to increase.

nothing replaces those times feelings that healer job brings this what should focus on. thrill of being good healer. skill of being a good healer. don't care if have 2-3 buttons its not important to me. important is that do my job adjust to my team. i have one purpose 1 thats make sure that support my team whatever means ness. i mean you have 4 other dps and 2 tanks literly mostly made damage skills. your roll as healer should never be dps first heal second or not heal at all

Come on Victoria, this is a tired old argument. Whether you believe healers should have more healing focus or are fine with healers splitting it between healing and DPS as it currently stands a good heal will have a huge chunk of time where their options are: DPS, overheal or do nothing.

Overhealing is a waste.
DPSing contributes something meaningful
Doing nothing is lazy and unfair on your group. (and is boring)

Yes things can go south. The game is also scripted meaning incoming damage is predictable. You can also predict how much damage a person is going to take and you can predict whether somebody is going to eat an AoE because you can see their position, you know roughly how quickly they can move out of it. You also know who in your party to keep an eye on more by how frequently they take damage.

For experienced healers all this stuff is second nature and we barely think about it.

They could ramp up the incoming damage and I know that's the dev's goal but they are stuck in a difficult balance in this approach and that's keeping healers accessible for low skilled players and interesting for experienced healers because they want to do both. Whilst I'd welcome more healing intensity but current attempts of them doing that has not alleviated the complaint.

And hey, by all means I am fine for them to continue in this direction, but can we just have something to hold us over until they succeed?

[VictoriaLuv]

Come on Victoria, this is a tired old argument. Whether you believe healers should have more healing focus or are fine with healers splitting it between healing and DPS as it currently stands a good heal will have a huge chunk of time where their options are: DPS, overheal or do nothing.

Overhealing is a waste.
DPSing contributes something meaningful
Doing nothing is lazy and unfair on your group. (and is boring)

Yes things can go south. The game is also scripted meaning incoming damage is predictable. You can also predict how much damage a person is going to take and you can predict whether somebody is going to eat an AoE because you can see their position, you know roughly how quickly they can move out of it. You also know who in your party to keep an eye on more by how frequently they take damage.

For experienced healers all this stuff is second nature and we barely think about it.

They could ramp up the incoming damage and I know that's the dev's goal but they are stuck in a difficult balance in this approach and that's keeping healers accessible for low skilled players and interesting for experienced healers because they want to do both. Whilst I'd welcome more healing intensity but current attempts of them doing that has not alleviated the complaint.

And hey, by all means I am fine for them to continue in this direction, but can we just have something to hold us over until they succeed?

from yoshi-p interviews muiti-different people his stance is that he want healers to heal more often. I honestly believe this is right step forward. yes its boring sitting still its boring that raid group isn't taking damage when they should. unavoidable damage mechainics should be added to game. keeping people healed. unavoidable damage should happen every 15 seconds in fight big numbers.. you have 2 healers. this not impossible to do. that way rarely have time to dps more just healing 70% time in fight or some one or lot ppl gonna die

is this make it hard. well its called savage for reason.

[Saefinn]

from yoshi-p interviews muiti-different people his stance is that he want healers to heal more often. I honestly believe this is right step forward. yes its boring sitting still its boring that raid group isn't taking damage when they should. unavoidable damage mechainics should be added to game. keeping people healed. unavoidable damage should happen every 15 seconds in fight big numbers.. you have 2 healers. this not impossible to do. that way rarely have time to dps more just healing 70% time in fight or some one or lot ppl gonna die

is this make it hard. well its called savage for reason.

Yes, YoshiP said he wants people to heal more often and as I say, I am fine with that idea because yes, we are healers. And even if I like juggling DPS, it's still a hefty chunk where we're doing DPS.

He also indicated he wants to both the low end and high end of healers.

He also said they've been focused on this approach since 5.x, yet in 5.x downtime was a big complaint. So we know they've not yet achieved the goal they want to achieve.

High end healers don't just do Savage. They do MSQ, roulettes, Eureka, Bozja, Hunts, Deep Dungeon, FATEs, side quests, EX, normal raids, alliance raids, beast tribes and so on.
So making it interesting in Savage only is not a solution. I'm a semi-casual, I rarely do Savage, Savage shouldn't be the only place I can enjoy my favoured role.

With Endwalker coming up, I'm weighing what I want to do the MSQ on, although I would like to get AST or SGE through it, but I know there's going to be a lot of solo quests and single-player instances where my toolkit just feels like crap. So I might end up doing DNC like I did for ShB.

If they make it too hard on non-Savage content to accommodate higher end players then the barrier to entry for lower skilled players is higher. If they leave it as it is where the skill floor is low enough for entry level players then your higher skilled players are likely to get just as bored as they are now.

This is what I mean that they've chosen a very difficult path.


What many of us have been asking is for the simplest solution, we know how difficult and complex the alternative solutions are, especially if trying to accommodate the players the devs want to accommodate. And that simplest solution can hold us over until they get that balance right. DPS is not a required barrier for entry on a healing job so it's not going to hurt that skill floor.

And it's on this path that they make the solo side of the game also feel like crap, With what we've asked for, it wouldn't.

In fact, if they took the solutions I've been pushing for you'd find that:
- Healing remains accessible
- Healing intensity in general is higher and people are DPSing less
- There remains better DPS options, especially in content where healing is less intense (maybe it's low difficulty content) or where you're playing solo
- A low skill floor remains and the skill ceilings rise.

One downside is that the DPS kit might seem overwhelming to a new player because it looks like there is a lot to learn. But I've even suggested Hall of the Novice changes to alleviate that problem. Another is that min-maxers have more to do but it's not the end of the world if they do and they'd still likely enjoy their roles.

How much people heal and DPS is determined by mechanics and how your healing tools deal with that and not by how many DPS tools you have under your belt. I can say this as somebody who plays BLU as a healer spec, I can say this as somebody who main healed on FFXI as SCH whose DPS toolkit was one of the biggest in the game. I can say this as somebody who mained SCH back in 2.0 when the DPS toolkit was much bigger and the healing intensity higher.

[Jirah]

You’ve literally have never posted anything remotely thought provoking, I believe it’s best to just remain quite because either half the time you don’t know what your talking about or just needlessly rambling