Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Adeacia]

Life is so easy when you can conflate two positions into one and assign that new fake position to a group of people you have a personal distaste for isn't it?

If you wanted difficulty, you would not use ANY tools to make the fights easier. Instead, they get used, then people brag about how they can clear this content while berating anyone who can't.

If you really wanted difficult fights, you wouldn't even need a reward for finishing them. You just want to show off, not have an actual challenge.

[Garnix]

I am happy you are good with blatant cheating if it helps them "enjoy" the game.
if they arent having to actually PLAY the game, how much are they really enjoying?
these programs that you are so happy with people using, are not only used so you dont have to really learn everything, but also to have completely bot map parties, bot crafting, bot market selling, all to provide gil in exchange for real money

you happy with all that too?

They are still playing the game. They are on rails, but still interacting.
Bots are different. Apples and oranges.

[Sotaris]

I agree, this needs to go and be banned right now before this turns into another wow fiasco for the community.

"another wow fiasco" what do you mean? Not like Cactbot going to end up like DBM if that's the point you trying to make.

It's illegal to have a program that scans for hacks? Don't many other games do this....?

Anticheat programs built into your launcher or game is not same as having a scan program installed to your customers PC's. It would violate some privacy laws in most places.

The programs in question are all overlays, not "hacks" i believe
Not that i agree with it playing the game for you, but it is what it is

They are overlays. It's not a bot. It's not gonna play for you, it just calls out a mechanic is incoming based on timeline info collected by players or network packets (latter is a guess on my side).

[Eien713]

To be honest, I don't know how they even call themselves raiders if their raid leader is a program -.-

I never understood using a program for raiding. Like, where's the merit in clearing this way? Would you have cleared without it? If not, then you're not good enough to raid. I can only see programs being useful for people with some special needs that require the use of such tools to enjoy this content of the game and not get excluded from it.

[Sotaris]

To be honest, I don't know how they even call themselves raiders if their raid leader is a program -.-

I never understood using a program for raiding. Like, where's the merit in clearing this way? Would you have cleared without it? If not, then you're not good enough to raid.

The way I look at it, they still gotta do the mechanics. The callouts is no different from a real person saying them.
It saves time to understand and learn abilities and the fights. They don't harm anyone from my pov.

[Eien713]

The way I look at it, they still gotta do the mechanics. The callouts is no different from a real person saying them.
It saves time to understand and learn abilities and the fights. They don't harm anyone from my pov.

I strongly disagree. Being able to notice and call out mechanics on the fly isn't the same as having a program say: Hey, listen! This is coming up next. (Do this and/or that.) It's cheating. Plain and simple.

I was curious about Echo's raiding in FF14, but I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I heard a program announcing the mechanics for them. I heard they were these famous raiders for WoW, so I was curious about how they'd do in FF14 and what they'd think of its raids. But after seeing them rely on a damn program, I immediately clicked out of the video.

[Sotaris]

I strongly disagree. Being able to notice and call out mechanics on the fly isn't the same as having a program say: Hey, listen! This is coming up next. (Do this and/or that.) It's cheating. Plain and simple.

Is watching a youtube guide also cheating then? It's practically the same thing.

I guess we're of opposite opinions on the matter, cheating implies however you have an advantage over others and I don't think you gain any advantage of getting it called out by a overlay vs having a raid leader say same thing or watch a video.

[Saraide]

People streaming their clears with cactbot active is of course kinda cringe but the line is honestly not so clear cut on everything that we automate with third party programs. Technically whenever you take BiS sets from somewhere you are relying on third party tools or on people who relied on those tools.

I'm against fights with tons of random stuff happening because I find planning out mitigations very fun. Predetermined boss attacks of course make botting and cacbot callouts a lot easier but I think it's important to not punish everyone for some people who rely on cactbot when the damage done by those people is realistically irrelevant. So what if someone brags about cheated clears, titles dont mean anything. It's the skill that got you there that means something. What's the bigger achievement: one person who really understands the fight acknowledging your skill or 10 people who have no clue and just gasp at the shiny weapon glam? IMO it's definitely the first one.

If anything it's an easy way to see if someone is worth your time. I dont think there are many clearer red flags than a party "requiring" the use of cactbot.

[Garnix]

I strongly disagree. Being able to notice and call out mechanics on the fly isn't the same as having a program say: Hey, listen! This is coming up next. (Do this and/or that.) It's cheating. Plain and simple.

A lot of times, callouts are not 'on the fly'. They come from a raider who knows the mechanics and know when they will happen, because the fights are scripted.

[Sotaris]

I was curious about Echo's raiding in FF14, but I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I heard a program announcing the mechanics for them. I heard they were these famous raiders for WoW, so I was curious about how they'd do in FF14 and what they'd think of its raids. But after seeing them rely on a damn program, I immediately clicked out of the video.

Not very surprising. They come from a game where DBM is the norm. It would be quite the big change both gameplay and culture wise to expect them to take the visual queues like we been doing for years.

This is also why you see so many ex-wow players wanting to change the UI elements instead of using the default ones.