Are you the loud minority? (Healer feedback)

[AFuzzyMu11in]

For the record one of the reasons why healing "dps" is so simple is because it's been a problem when it wasn't. Clearly you guys don't remember the days of this.
https://imgur.com/a/4eM33

And threads like this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nd_the_cleric/

Total flame war over healers not dpsing going back and forth. Why? Because back then it was so annoyingly difficult to get into most people just didn't ever do it and you ended up with way more "bad healers" at least now the entry into average/good healer/raid healer is far easier than it was back then.

[Melorie]

For the record one of the reasons why healing "dps" is so simple is because it's been a problem when it wasn't. Clearly you guys don't remember the days of this.
https://imgur.com/a/4eM33

And threads like this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nd_the_cleric/

Total flame war over healers not dpsing going back and forth. Why? Because back then it was so annoyingly difficult to get into most people just didn't ever do it and you ended up with way more "bad healers" at least now the entry into average/good healer/raid healer is far easier than it was back then.

Except that once again, I still haven't seen someone here asking for cleric stance again, nor even telling SE that they should go back to 2.x style. Most of the time, although people miss a thing or two (I personally miss SB combat the most, it was a good balance imo), that doesn't mean they aren't open for other possibilities that are bigger than just going back into the past. Most people here are just asking to not spam glare and this isn't asking a lot. The healer situation doesn't need to be a black and white situation in which you either have something extremely over-the-top (though I wouldn't mind at least one option of this for variety) or one skill over and over again forever and ever. The devs clearly can be creative and create solutions that embrace a good deal of different levels of gameplay instead of letting everyone at stage 0. Acting like any discussion regarding this is people asking for gatekeeping is simply being unfair, since a big majority of the discussions here have showed a bunch of different viewpoints that covers a lot of different grounds - class kit synergy, encounter design, stat squish, etc.

To think that they're incapable of achieving this and refusing any discussion or changes to accommodate people that have poured their love and time in this role and are left spamming glare can only be admitting that the dev team is incompetent, because there's zero reason to see this situation as something that is either 8 or 80.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Except that once again, I still haven't seen someone here asking for cleric stance again, nor even telling SE that they should go back to 2.x style. Most of the time, although people miss a thing or two (I personally miss SB combat the most, it was a good balance imo), that doesn't mean they aren't open for other possibilities that are bigger than just going back into the past. Most people here are just asking to not spam glare and this isn't asking a lot. The healer situation doesn't need to be a black and white situation in which you either have something extremely over-the-top (though I wouldn't mind at least one option of this for variety) or one skill over and over again forever and ever. The devs clearly can be creative and create solutions that embrace a good deal of different levels of gameplay instead of letting everyone at stage 0. Acting like any discussion regarding this is people asking for gatekeeping is simply being unfair, since a big majority of the discussions here have showed a bunch of different viewpoints that covers a lot of different grounds - class kit synergy, encounter design, stat squish, etc.

To think that they're incapable of achieving this and refusing any discussion or changes to accommodate people that have poured their love and time in this role and are left spamming glare can only be admitting that the dev team is incompetent, because there's zero reason to see this situation as something that is either 8 or 80.

To be honest, they prob have fixed this problem. If I had to guess, they are going to use sage as a test to see if they can give the raiders/bored healers who don't enjoy simplistic rotations, a chance to shine. If it works out, more than likely they will just continue to make sage "harder" and treat it as a high skill cap job that requires a lot of "skill" to pilot at it's highest level.

[Dogempire]

For the record one of the reasons why healing "dps" is so simple is because it's been a problem when it wasn't. Clearly you guys don't remember the days of this.
https://imgur.com/a/4eM33

And threads like this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nd_the_cleric/

Total flame war over healers not dpsing going back and forth. Why? Because back then it was so annoyingly difficult to get into most people just didn't ever do it and you ended up with way more "bad healers" at least now the entry into average/good healer/raid healer is far easier than it was back then.

Eh, on one hand I get why removing cleric stance was necessary since it was really clunky having to swap your stats just to deal decent damage, but on the other hand just because a role is difficult to play because of x or y reason doesn't mean that it should be changed so that everyone can play it regardless of skill level.

I mean I'll admit that I'm terrible at playing BLM because I'm bad at keeping enochain up, and same with monk because the constant positional and rotational changes are confusing to me, doesn't mean I can't respect that other people have the skillset to play classes like that and that the fundamental playstyle of a class shouldn't be changed just to give it mass appeal, especially when it alienates the existing players and brings in new ones that just want something easy but effective

Healers don't need more complex rotations, but we've moved away from more nuanced play where constantly mitigating is just a waste of a GCD and encounters have mostly devolved into "Pull boss, dodge mechanics, tank and spank till dead"

We don't even have TP anymore, or aggro reduction tools, what else is there even to give healers to occupy their time?

[Melorie]

Eh, on one hand I get why removing cleric stance was necessary since it was really clunky having to swap your stats just to deal decent damage, but on the other hand just because a role is difficult to play because of x or y reason doesn't mean that it should be changed so that everyone can play it regardless of skill level.

Yeah, for me they could've simply added a very easy healer (whatever that means for them tbh) instead of gutting 3 classes at once and then introducing one that would supposedly be a "fix" for the people that enjoyed them more than 2 years later (which doesn't seem like it will, given that sage rotation doesn't really change that much from the rest, but well). Specially since besides SCH, WHM and Ast did not even have that huge amount of buttons before anyway. Personally I despise sage's aesthetic, I will try it for the lack of a better options, but I'm not optimistic.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I get why removing cleric stance was necessary since it was really clunky

(I agree with your post, but wanna touch on this, than rant on my own)
They never needed to remove it. They just needed it to stop being clunky lol. Too many spells are 2.5s cast times, which means u have to clip, to swap. This is the 2nd most annoying part about cleric stance. (it would be pretty fun, if u could swap, even mid cast, even though the system isnt designed to handle that)

But the BIGGEST problem, is that you had to wait 6s before you were allowed to heal again... and if "6s to turn off" HAD to stay, thats the OPPOSITE of how it should have been designed. And of course, the BEST way to make it, so everyone ENJOYS the mechanic, is to make it a toggle on and off with NO cd whatsoever!

Had they made QoL changes to Cleric Stance, it would have been fine. (and honestly all tanks/healers throughout SB/ShB changes) but SE is obsessed with throwing away good ideas, because they were implemented annoyingly. "But the players said they didnt like it, so we threw it away".
DRK had to double weave VERY long animation oGCDs, causing clipping. So SE shortened "some" of the oGCDs, and still not enough in many ways. So instead of just fixing it, they completely changed DRK to SB version of DRK, to minimize this problem. Many oGCDs couldnt combo with DA anymore. But DRK was still trying to throw out as much oGCDs as possible, and along with other issues at the time, plenty of ppl complained about DRK. (3.0 players were just upset DRK lost so much, and all they wanted was minor fixes, instead of the stuff being thrown away) and now SE was like, we remade it into the ShB DRK... just press 123 and no more problems! We combined DA and oGCDs into 1 skill, no longer do you need to turn your brain on!

They still mess up a LOT on DPS jobs, but they clearly put far more effort into them, and it shows.

edit: looked up the timer, its 6s, not 12s. idk why i remember 12s lol

[Sunhwapark]

But the BIGGEST problem, is that you had to wait 12s before you were allowed to heal again... and if 12s to turn off

Wasn't the cooldown only like 5 seconds though? It was definitely at least a GCD or 2 which is enough to screw you over if you misclicked it in an emergency, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't as long as 12s, and it did not incur any cooldown when turning the skill off.

[Silver-Strider]

Wasn't the cooldown only like 5 seconds though? It was definitely at least a GCD or 2 which is enough to screw you over if you misclicked it in an emergency, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't as long as 12s, and it did not incur any cooldown when turning the skill off.

It used to be 12 seconds up but it got changed to be 5 seconds.