Animosity with World of warcraft players who still like the game?

[Averax]

A lot of people in here comparing wow to an abusive relationship. I think you all need to examine why you cling to things you don't enjoy. I have quit wow before, during WoD. There was nothing to do and i wasn't having fun. I've been playing for a loooong time and it wasn't a hard choice to make. That's when i got an account fired up here. Played this until wow looked to be fun again. I found a community there.

Currently, i love playing, i have a great time. I love my friends that i've made there. They make the game fun for me.

[StriderShinryu]

If you want XIV to be like WoW, go play WoW.

Certainly, I wasn't accusing anyone in particular of anything regarding harassment or anything, it was more of a general "you" so I'm glad you didn't take it that way.

Anyway, the above a really important point to me, and it's also sort of echoed in what Aries is saying too. Every game is different, should be different, and is going to be different. If you come to FF14 and your first comment is "Man, I wish FF14 was like WoW" and that's all you can say then maybe you honestly should stick with WoW. And, yes, if you only look at FF14 and WoW as THE two options then there are going to be elements in which you are going to have to make a choice. As Aries says, if you're a PvP monster than FF14 is not going to satisfy you. Heck, if you're a really hardcore raider who needs tons of hardcore bosses and lots of iterative challenge focused content, FF14 is probably not going to satisfy you either. There were some people who keep asking day in and day out for harder low man content in FF14 even though the devs have repeatedly said they're not really interested in expanding on it in 14. There are some people who's entire interest in 14 tanked just because the next Ultimate was delayed. Etc. As I said in my earlier post, people who may still be playing (and hopefully enjoying) WoW may have their reasons.

WoW is what it is, and that's unlikely to change in fundamental ways. FF14 is what it is too, and that's also unlikely to change in fundamental ways either. Many of the interviews from the recent Media Tour touched upon topics relating to this and it's pretty obvious YoshiP is not looking to make FF14 into, for example, a hardcore raider's paradise and is instead comfortable with it being an experience that offers things for everyone even if those things are at times limited because of the game's reach. If that's not what you want in FF14 then you should probably take a step back and see if you can find what you want elsewhere. It's no different from WoW in that respect (again, talking purely about the actual gameplay elements and not the questionable internal issues).

So yeah, echoing Aries, there's a number of other MMO options out there for everyone. And, perhaps scariest to some, there's also the option of just not playing an MMO at all. If what you want in an MMO doesn't exist these days then maybe it would be best to just not play an MMO at all. We all know that even more casual player oriented MMOs like FF14 still require some level of maintenance and upkeep; some level of needing to stay attached/connected. And if this game, or that game, is making you feel like you need to stay connected to something you're not enjoying, then you'd probably be better off cutting the cord at least temporarily and viewing things from a fresher perspective.

[Loonies]

The problem with WoW is that there is no generally game play improvement in prospect. No CM s anymore, no communication between players and development. Youtubers quit WoW or just talk about the bad news because what else is left to talk about Wow.
There still quit a lot more players, we will see al lot more wow refugees when Endwalker is up.

There is no animosity against WoW, the game is just not good anymore.

[Averax]

The problem with WoW is that there is no generally game play improvement in prospect. No CM s anymore, no communication between players and development. Youtubers quit WoW or just talk about the bad news because what else is left to talk about Wow.
There still quit a lot more players, we will see al lot more wow refugees when Endwalker is up.

There is no animosity against WoW, the game is just not good anymore.

Actually the recent bit of hot water they're in has made them much more receptive to feedback.

Hate aoe caps? Gone!
Want more customization? Done!
Wanna freely swap covenants? Done!
Hate conduit energy and just wanna swap conduits as much as your heart desires? Done!

Among other things.

They're basically doing everything they should have done with the expansion launch now. It's coming late but the players appreciate it. Developers of all games do this thing where they have a vision for how they want things to work and are stubbornly resistant to any feedback. That's not unique to wow at all, but it's frustrating for us as the players. BFA was the epitome of developer hubris, they didn't listen when people told them how bad azerite armor was as a concept, they didn't listen when players said how bad the corruption mechanic was. These two systems made the gear progression for the entire expansion frustrating and awkward.

Now if you want the ultimate example of developer hubris that isn't wow, see Wildstar. Oh wait, you can't, because it died.

[Kes13a]

Now if you want the ultimate example of developer hubris that isn't wow, see Wildstar. Oh wait, you can't, because it died.

Wildstars problem was that they listened to a subset on the forums, I am sure they made them very happy.

unlike WoW however, Wildstar didnt have the population of diehard leet players to make up for people leaving. hopefully WoW still does....

[RobynDaBank]

BFA was the epitome of developer hubris, they didn't listen when people told them how bad azerite armor was as a concept, they didn't listen when players said how bad the corruption mechanic was. These two systems made the gear progression for the entire expansion frustrating and awkward.

Don't forget the good old Benthic and Essences system! /vomit

I think Corruption was fun because they just gave up on balancing it. Sure, other specs would obviously handle them even better, but for example Shadow Priest could become insanely and funnily bursty. Of course they had to screw up acquiring them, even after the fix which was clearly designed to chain people into subscriptions just to progress.

[MoofiaBossVal]

A lot of people in here comparing wow to an abusive relationship. I think you all need to examine why you cling to things you don't enjoy.

People still cling to WoW (or variations of WoW like private servers) because there is no other game on the market that offers the same things WoW does. The timeless artstyle that looks fantastic regardless of how powerful your machine is. The very strong class, racial, and faction identity. The PvP. The only game that lets you really look like a monstrous, inhuman beastman (rather than playing as a human wearing a rubber mask, like a Khajit or a Hrothgar). The instantaneous, responsive gameplay where you click something and it just works. The elaborate boss fight design. Etc.

Wildstars problem was that they listened to a subset on the forums, I am sure they made them very happy.

unlike WoW however, Wildstar didnt have the population of diehard leet players to make up for people leaving. hopefully WoW still does....

I don't think everyone still playing WoW is a diehard. I know plenty of casuals who still play (not as much anymore due to how grindy the systems have become) and I've recommended FFXIV to them, and some of them tried FFXIV out, but they still stick with WoW because it's what they love and there isn't really any other game that fits their tastes. FFXIV doesn't excel at - or even have - the thing I mentioned above that makes WoW unique.

[AlyaNimfa]

Actually the recent bit of hot water they're in has made them much more receptive to feedback.

Hate aoe caps? Gone!
Want more customization? Done!
Wanna freely swap covenants? Done!
Hate conduit energy and just wanna swap conduits as much as your heart desires? Done!

Among other things.

They're basically doing everything they should have done with the expansion launch now. It's coming late but the players appreciate it.

Not just that, the fact they have lost most of their playerbase. Also, some of the players that are still there appreciate it. They don't really have good vibes toward their overlords over there.

I dunno, at what point do you quit trying to bail water and head for the life raft?

[Izscha]

Not just that, the fact they have lost most of their playerbase.

Since none of us never got real numbers i find always funny to assume things like that out of the magic hat.
"Yeah but look at reddit and forums" those aren't even the majority to begin with even more it's a tiny bit of a games population, sure they lost subscribers, lost "most of it" is a bit of a stretch.

[AlyaNimfa]

There are other ways, data is drawn from leaderboards and such, then comparing those numbers to previous months/years you will see a downward trend in numbers.
It's not a big deal, I mean the game is well past its prime, it's done great to get this far. It's also nothing personal, so try not to make it such. You aren't the games company, just like yoshi isn't my long lost uncle.