Haginbana

[RinaB]

I have 2 questions about this ability.
1: is it worth it to spend Tsubame on the higher potency version every chance you get or always save that for Kaeshi: Setsugekka?
2: would it be too strong if this ability hit all enemies in front of you and apply the dot as the animation is like a horizontal wind tunnel?

[Cabalabob]

You should almost never use tsubame with higanbana, the potency is higher to make up for the fact it is an ability so it can’t be buffed by kaiten (kaeshi higanbana is the same potency as kaiten higanbana). The only reason to use tsubame would be if there was a second target that is going to be alive long enough to get the full duration out of it.

It would be very OP if it was AoE the total potency is 1575 over the course of a minute. Even Guren is only 850 over 2 minutes with a 50 Kenki cost.

[RinaB]

I wrote my message fast and screwed up my terms and 1st question. What I meant to ask was is it better dps wise to use Kaeshi: Higanbana or Kaeshi: setsugekka? Kaiten doesn't buff the dot damage of Higanbana even though it's a weaponskill? Sorry for screwing up my terms I don't have all the ability names memorized.

[Rongway]

1) You should boost Higanbana with Kaiten but you should never follow it with Kaeshi on the same target because Kaeshi's DoT overwrites Higanbana's DoT and 1,140~1,200 potency would disappear into nowhere.

Kaiten Higanbana: 1.5 (250 p + 40 p/tick * 20 tick) = 1,575 p
Kaeshi Higanbana: 375 p + 60 p/tick * 20 tick = 1,575 p
Kaiten Higanbana + Kaeshi Higanbana on same target: 375 p + 60 p/tick * (0~1) tick + 375p + 60 p/tick * 20 tick = (1,950 p ~ 2,010 p)



2) Unbuffed Higanbana as an AoE hitting even just one more target would be an additional 1,050 p if both targets live for the full minute, at a cost of 0 additional Sen and 0 kenki. For reference, this would be a total of 2,100p, which is 1,380p over the 720p that Tenka Goken, which costs 1 more Sen, would do to two targets. If they lived for just 30s it would still be 1,300 p total, or an additional 580p over Tenka Goken. Cabalabob mentions Guren, which would do 1,700p to 2 targets at a cost of 50 kenki on a 2 minute cooldown. As allowing an unbuffed Higanbana to hit just one more target for the full duration would do almost that much additional damage for free, I'd say that would definitely be OP.

[Acece]

I think if the target lives past 48(?) sec it's a damage increase on two targets if not just do double midare, Though you will need to edit your rotation when you double dot. Also kaiten doesnt buff tsubame.

[FlareVyzar]

There is absolutely 0 reason for you to use Kaeshi Higanbana on anything regardless of amount of targets.

Only use Tsubame Gaeshi on Midare on single target or Tenka Goken for multiple mobs.

Reasoning is pretty simple.

Building a midare costs you 8 GCD to execute 1midare into tsubame gaeshi worth of 1200 potency and comes every 1 minute.

Building a higanbana costs you 2 GCDs
Kaeshi and Normal Higanbana does not stack. So it just wastes your 60s GCD, because it takes you just 2 GCD to reapply higanbana on another target (1 if Meikyo) which does the same amount of potency Kaeshi Higanbana does.

You don't look at raw potency directly always on samurai. How much GCDs it costs you to execute is also an important factor. Like for 2 + targets building a Kasha/Gekko into Yukikaze then into Tenka Goken is far more efficient than building a Kasha/Gekko into another Kasha/Gekko.

[Rongway]

Retracted. See FlareVyzar below.

[FlareVyzar]

quote

https://imgur.com/a/uiQHZtO

I'm just going to leave this here man, review your calculations again including the kenki per GCD to potency as well. That is not how you calculate damage on this game.
If your statement was true, people would be using kaeshi higanbana on BJ & CC on TEA, or LL phase. or any fight that has 2 targets. Those people never end up get high damage.

Regardless of this, if you are still unsure, feel free to consult The Balance or any high level Samurai performer.
I don't comment as often on Forums, I am just commenting here, to help a newbie refrain from getting bad advices on Samurai.

Don't want to start a discussion or argument here, please recheck your information before posting and helping newbies. Because giving wrong advices to new players, causes them to have a bad game experience when they get into raiding.
There are lots of Samurai players who are trying their best to improve and do more content. And a lot of players do not opt for either YT guides or the Balance and tend to ask here on forums.

Either way,
@OP

quote OP

There are lots of guides on Samurai on The Balance & YT, including myself. I have made samurai guides from beginner level to in depth optimization for Shadowbringers. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask there. We will gladly help you.
Enjoy your day, fellow Samurai ~

[Lilyth]

Flare is correct, you don't use Kaeshi Higanbana. Ever.

TL;DR is that you can put another bana in 3 GCDs whereas Midare takes 9.

[Rongway]

Maths

I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong, and that math is sound. In short, using Kaeshi: Setsugekka and applying a second manual Higanbana gets you three big hits in the span of 7 GCDs, as opposed to 3 big hits in the span of 13 GCDs. Or from another angle, using Tsubame-gaeshi to get a second Higanbana only saves you 2 GCDs whereas using it to get a second Setsugekka saves you 8 GCDs. The sequence that uses Kaeshi: Higanbana catches up on every Setsugekka, but between Setsugekkas is behind slightly.