The clones of Emet.

[kaynide]

Technically by killing Emet-Selch and Elidibus WoL also did a genocide.

A single act of killing does not a murder nor a genocide make.

[Wiz33]

Technically by killing Emet-Selch and Elidibus WoL also did a genocide.

As I said many time. Emet is not dead, He took a curtain call and retired. Elidibus is binded in the Crystal Tower. What does that mean, no idea but it's not the same that happened to Lahabrea. Lost as Elidibus was, I don't think Emet would give us the means to totally destroy him.

[Vyrerus]

What makes you say this? The only reason we won against him in the first place in 5.3 was due to another unsundered helping us. We had no such thing when we were fighting him in SB. He could’ve simply used that rift move again and it would’ve been game over.

Because in the hypothetical he doesn't ever encounter Catboi Sage Deluxe, thus he can steal no spirit vessel with the full memory knowledge of the Calling spell, as he did in 5.3. As was required for him to empower himself to the level he needed in order to combat us as he did in the Seat of Sacrifice. Note that he also doesn't see us by any means fighting Emet-selch in said hypothetical, and therefore has no measuring stick with which to know the true power that he requires to potentially best the WoL.

Don't be daft, it doesn't suit you.

[Wiz33]

Because in the hypothetical he doesn't ever encounter Catboi Sage Deluxe, thus he can steal no spirit vessel with the full memory knowledge of the Calling spell, as he did in 5.3. As was required for him to empower himself to the level he needed in order to combat us as he did in the Seat of Sacrifice. Note that he also doesn't see us by any means fighting Emet-selch in said hypothetical, and therefore has no measuring stick with which to know the true power that he requires to potentially best the WoL.

Don't be daft, it doesn't suit you.

Doesn't need any of it. Just throw you into the rify and without Emet's help, you'll can't get back even if you break free.

[Vyrerus]

Doesn't need any of it. Just throw you into the rify and without Emet's help, you'll can't get back even if you break free.

He's not strong enough to do that without surging his powers with the WoLs he summons. If he was, he would have done it ages ago or when he fought us as Ardbert in Amaurot.

[KageTokage]

I feel like the main reason weaponized teleportation isn't used more often in media in general is because it's genuinely overpowered unless the victim specifically has the means to prevent it or get out of whatever mess they're warped into...assuming it's not immediately lethal.

We regularly see the Ascians teleporting themselves or others around so I don't see much actually preventing them from weaponizing it in a more low-key manner like...say, teleporting their enemies off cliffs or into walls (As E7S would gleefully do if you weren't paying attention).

[KizuyaKatogami]

Because in the hypothetical he doesn't ever encounter Catboi Sage Deluxe, thus he can steal no spirit vessel with the full memory knowledge of the Calling spell, as he did in 5.3. As was required for him to empower himself to the level he needed in order to combat us as he did in the Seat of Sacrifice. Note that he also doesn't see us by any means fighting Emet-selch in said hypothetical, and therefore has no measuring stick with which to know the true power that he requires to potentially best the WoL.

Don't be daft, it doesn't suit you.

Calling me daft lmao. Ironic. You realize he’s a primal yes? He could easily just use garlean reverence and gain power from that. It’s common sense. It’s just a major plot hole in the story. We had no auracite on us in that instance either, so again, we’d have no way of slaying him and he has the advantage of both being unsundered and being able to gain power from prayer.

[Cleretic]

Calling me daft lmao. Ironic. You realize he’s a primal yes? He could easily just use garlean reverence and gain power from that. It’s common sense. It’s just a major plot hole in the story. We had no auracite on us in that instance either, so again, we’d have no way of slaying him and he has the advantage of both being unsundered and being able to gain power from prayer.

We don't need white auracite to kill an Ascian, we basically just need white auracite to buy time to line up a method to actually kill them. Otherwise they just teleport out.

So, presuming we had to fight Elidibus without the situation of the Crystal Tower on the First... we feasibly could have, it just requires getting resourceful. The things that have killed an Ascian so far, in order of when we learn about who got killed by it...

• Ancient magical staff (Nabriales)
• Dragon's Eye (Igeyorhm)
• Different Dragon's Eye, this time set on 'suck' (Lahabrea)
• Getting dunked in the Lifestream (Emmerololth)
• Blade of light made out of an apocalypse's worth of aether (Emet-Selch)
• Getting shoved in a magical solar battery (Elidibus)
• Normal blade of light (Loghrif)
• Normal blade of light, and then... I think just violence and relationship drama? The cutscene gets too metaphorical to tell (Mitron)

The only one that was outright planned and premeditated was Lahabrea, and not even by us!

Historically, killing Ascians has never been a matter of actual planning and preparation, and more a matter of being very clever and resourceful. If we didn't have the Crystal Tower, we'd just have to find another way to kill the guy, and given we didn't need to, we don't know what else was available.

And we probably won't find out! Remember that Fandaniel's only making his plan work because no greater Ascians are stopping him; any hypothetical alternative Elidibus throwdown would probably take place in/around Garlemald, but it would be a very different Garlemald to the one we'll explore in Endwalker.

Maybe in that alternate version, we'd have been able to sic Queen Gunnhildr or the Diamond Weapon on him, and solved it that way.

[kaynide]

Calling me daft lmao. Ironic. You realize he’s a primal yes? He could easily just use garlean reverence and gain power from that. It’s common sense. It’s just a major plot hole in the story. We had no auracite on us in that instance either, so again, we’d have no way of slaying him and he has the advantage of both being unsundered and being able to gain power from prayer.

As I understand it, when an Ascian in-the-flesh dies, they turn into Aether and are able to reform instead of dissolving into the lifestream. Like a cloud of nano-particles that can recombine later.

The purpose of the White Auracite is to hoover that Aether into a single spot so the aether itself can be blasted back into the lifestream with a huge amount of Aether. So as long as we can target their aetheric form with concentrated aether, we can dissolve them. Usually we just see it as a cloud of sorts, but it could also form something much bigger like Hades' "True form" once the body is shed.

So, while I'm confident Nabriales, Igeyorhm and Emet-Selch are destroyed, I'm not so confident on some of the others.

Lahabrea specifically was hoovered by the eye, but the eye itself was transmuted into Shinryu. Once Shinryu was destroyed, I'm not sure what happens to that aether- the body is destroyed, but the actual Aether...what happens to it? Are the "Lahabrea" nanoparticles released and able to recombine?

We also don't know if Elidibus is dead, as he was merely sucked into the Crystal Tower.

Additionally, we are not 100% sure that they even actually are dead-dead once they rejoin the lifestream. No ascian has ever been killed until this specific era, so we assume they are dead because we haven't heard from them, but for all we know they might need a larger amount of time to reform.

That said, this is a game, so we can and should assume they are dead because it's better story telling- but there is possible leeway to retcon their death.

[Cleretic]

Lahabrea specifically was hoovered by the eye, but the eye itself was transmuted into Shinryu. Once Shinryu was destroyed, I'm not sure what happens to that aether- the body is destroyed, but the actual Aether...what happens to it? Are the "Lahabrea" nanoparticles released and able to recombine?

We also don't know if Elidibus is dead, as he was merely sucked into the Crystal Tower.

Additionally, we are not 100% sure that they even actually are dead-dead once they rejoin the lifestream. No ascian has ever been killed until this specific era, so we assume they are dead because we haven't heard from them, but for all we know they might need a larger amount of time to reform.

Okay, so in order:

Remember that the eye didn't just power Shinryu; before that, it also powered Nidhogg-Estinien, and before that, the Knights Twelve. After Shinryu is destroyed, both eyes are then destroyed by Estinien-Estinien. We then later see him tapping into the power of Nidhogg, although it's nebulous as to how. So Lahabrea got sucked into a battery that was then tapped into for two separate huge efforts, and then was either totally destroyed or is still being tapped into somehow. I think it's unlikely that Lahabrea remained intact for all too long there.

For Elidibus... well, we hit a similar problem as with Lahabrea before factoring in the consumptions. Like Lahabrea, he's in a battery; there's actually an unresolved question there as to whether or not a soul absorbed in that context is even intact, or if it's basically just converted into raw, order-irrelevant energy. Electricity generated from solar power doesn't remember it came from the sun; we don't know if the same logic applies to souls sucked into aether batteries. But I assume we'll be able to ask Lahabrea in a few months.

And we actually do know what happens when an Ascian rejoins the lifestream, because remember: Eden. Loghrif's soul was in the First's lifestream for... eighty-some years, let's say, since she died a hundred years ago in the First's timeline and Gaia is somewhere in her mid-to-late teens now. However, when she returned, it was without memories; Mitron went on to mess with her brain even further, but the scene right after E12 makes it clear that they reincarnate without memories anyway, and they generally seem to expect Mitron will get spat back out, sans memories, sometime after Gaia has passed.

I would actually think that the only Ascian incapable of reincarnating, at least in the natural process, is Emmerololth; being ripped apart by the Lifestream itself, she's unlikely to get put back together by it.