Further tank homogenization is pushing me away from tanking

[IckeDerTyp]

And here I am, still being sad you don't get to stance dance as a war anymore.

We can do two things, give SE feedback that they'll ignore, for better or worse. Or wait until we actually get to play stuff and then give em feedback again

Shb didn't kill tanking and I doubt EW will! If anything, I doubt they can make it worse in the first place, so it's all uphill from here ^^

[Lyth]

Gap closers are a bit of an interesting discussion in itself when it comes to homogenization.

Mobility tools are essential for tanking (moreso than any other role, even melee dps). One of the reasons why there were so many problems with gap closers on tanks is because they're all so similar. In ARR, nobody had a gap closer. In HW, only DRK had a gap closer, so everyone else complains. In SB, WAR got a vastly superior gap closer. DRK got a rework to Plunge so that the animation executes more quickly. In ShB, three tanks have identical gap closers which are brought into parity with WAR's with the introduction of the charge system. Now we're going towards complete homogenization, such that nobody can complain. But the problem at the start was partial homogenization, when there's one job that has a clearly better choice for pretty much every situation.

Yet, if you really want to see gap closers done correctly, you need only look at DPS jobs. Some jobs have gap closers that you use on recast as a dps gain, but have charge systems to give you some flexibility. Some have dps neutral gap closers that do damage but break even with their resource costs. NIN has you teleport to a ground targeted location. DRG has a fixed distance gap extender that you can reverse directions on to use as a gap closer. DNC and now probably MNK have fixed distance gap closers that don't do damage but let you 'blink' forward to travel quickly. RPR can teleport and then return to a preset location.

Giving players freedom of movement is a massive incentive to playing a job. I'm personally a big fan of the Tracer style 'blink' system or RPR's portal system. And this is just scratching the surface. Imagine being able to use something like Lost Impetus from Bozja in regular gameplay. What if you could gap close to a party member and shield them? What about a line AoE that lets you dash through mobs enroute to a new location? What about a Holmgang style grapple that pulls mobs towards you (this won't happen until they fix the 1.x bug that cancels mob 'casts' on movement).

And imagine being able to actually move mobs around in raid content, instead of them rigidly following fixed, pre-programmed railshooter movement. Wouldn't that be something.

Either way, it's just funny how much variety you can see with gap closers on DPS jobs without compromising job balance. Just make them unique. If you can't make a mathematical comparison of two effects, then they're going to be balanced. Partial homogenization is the real problem.

[Arkdra]

Yet, if you really want to see gap closers done correctly, you need only look at DPS jobs. Some jobs have gap closers that you use on recast as a dps gain, but have charge systems to give you some flexibility. Some have dps neutral gap closers that do damage but break even with their resource costs. NIN has you teleport to a ground targeted location. DRG has a fixed distance gap extender that you can reverse directions on to use as a gap closer. DNC and now probably MNK have fixed distance gap closers that don't do damage but let you 'blink' forward to travel quickly. RPR can teleport and then return to a preset location.

This post is very funny to me because melee dps gap closers are terrible and I wish they were all homogenized.

Sam: Terrible, dps loss, avoid using at all costs.
Drg: Spineshatter dive does damage so you have periods where you're sol and the move just becomes a dps cooldown.
mnk: same problem as drg currently, will have the best gap closer in endwalker though
nin: interesting, probably the best one currently.
rpr: Possibly clunky, depends on if the forward movement is fixed or not.

Really just wish everyone had endwalker monk or current nin to be honest in terms of gap closer..

[Baxcel]

DNC and now probably MNK have fixed distance gap closers that don't do damage but let you 'blink' forward to travel quickly. .

MNK new gap closer is actually like Aetherial Manipulation.. it has to have a target party member or enemy an dose no damage.

[Katie_Kitty]

That's nice dear.

[Mindiori]

I took your question on reasoning to be rhetorical, yet it's easy to answer the question by shoving yourself in the shoes of those complaining morons for two seconds.

In their eyes, as someone has already implied; its about having everything others do - because they have no intention of bothering to level/gear or invest in anything outside of their aesthetic preference. If they do at any point; they demand the same there.

I see a connection between their fundamental laziness and selfishness, with elements like 'skip pot' and so on. In the sense that certain features stack up and appeal to their sense of ease and entitlement. Think that before they come to the game - they likely find the idea of having everything available to one character attractive (less effort compared to games that don't); and the thought chain builds from there.

They effectively want it made easier and easier, faster and faster, less and less complex. All so they can reach the end game as quickly as feasible, take a few brag photos for a tweet or two - get bored and quit. In turn this aligns with Yoshi's own philosophy of 'expecting people to take breaks'. Another way at times of saying; 'longevity is not supported, because the content is extremely fast because its casual (in the bad way).

If you summarize all of the above into what we can call the 'knock on effect'. Then you will better understand the different stages of anger, that long term MMO players like myself have been through across the years. Compromise with different playstyles yes - or you end up with Wildstar. But to completely baby-fy the game for the lazy/toddler brain player; its a form of favoritism that intentionally ignores the more invested, or experienced. Thats hardly a promising experience/longevity model now is it.

[Lyth]

I honestly can't think of any competent melee dps player who would see a gap closer as a greater dps loss than walking over to a mob. The WAR/SAM complaints about resource costs were penny-wise and pound-foolish. Having a short recast on a gap closer is unbelievably powerful, because extra GCD uptime is worth its weight in gold. It's hilarious seeing the split in WAR players now that they've changed it, when you look at who's thrilled with the change and who isn't. The difference in opinion really does reflect in player performance.

I would personally take a fixed distance gap closer with no target (i.e. Roll/Chi Torpedo, Blink) over anything else, though. They're so versatile and eyeballing the travel distance becomes second nature once you spend enough time using them. They're also just plain fun. It's a bit like giving someone a grappling hook or a jet pack in an open world game. The most entertaining movement action I've seen so far is Lost Impetus with the dash + super sprint effect.

[Arkdra]

I honestly can't think of any competent melee dps player who would see a gap closer as a greater dps loss than walking over to a mob. The WAR/SAM complaints about resource costs were penny-wise and pound-foolish. Having a short recast on a gap closer is unbelievably powerful, because extra GCD uptime is worth its weight in gold. It's hilarious seeing the split in WAR players now that they've changed it, when you look at who's thrilled with the change and who isn't. The difference in opinion really does reflect in player performance.

Yes, sure, it's not a dps loss if it keeps your gcd rolling. It is a DPS loss if you could have just walked back in instead and not lost any uptime. Which you usually, though not always, can. Regardless, I'd still be much happier if it was just a 2 stack gap closer with no cost and no damage attached to it.

[Shin96]

I took your question on reasoning to be rhetorical, yet it's easy to answer the question by shoving yourself in the shoes of those complaining morons for two seconds.

In their eyes, as someone has already implied; its about having everything others do - because they have no intention of bothering to level/gear or invest in anything outside of their aesthetic preference. If they do at any point; they demand the same there.

I see a connection between their fundamental laziness and selfishness, with elements like 'skip pot' and so on. In the sense that certain features stack up and appeal to their sense of ease and entitlement. Think that before they come to the game - they likely find the idea of having everything available to one character attractive (less effort compared to games that don't); and the thought chain builds from there.

They effectively want it made easier and easier, faster and faster, less and less complex. All so they can reach the end game as quickly as feasible, take a few brag photos for a tweet or two - get bored and quit. In turn this aligns with Yoshi's own philosophy of 'expecting people to take breaks'. Another way at times of saying; 'longevity is not supported, because the content is extremely fast because its casual (in the bad way).

If you summarize all of the above into what we can call the 'knock on effect'. Then you will better understand the different stages of anger, that long term MMO players like myself have been through across the years. Compromise with different playstyles yes - or you end up with Wildstar. But to completely baby-fy the game for the lazy/toddler brain player; its a form of favoritism that intentionally ignores the more invested, or experienced. Thats hardly a promising experience/longevity model now is it.

Pretty much the type of players they love catering to. Let's be all equal, but I'm more equal than you. This type of casual entitlement is practically killing gaming as a whole, and the most ironic aspect in all of this is you don't have to invest hundreds of hours in specific content, but you have a long-term goal you aspire to, while simultaneously increasing rewards and your skill progressively. TLDR; they want it all now, show off what would take a considerable amount of dedication and time, and then just quit once they've exhausted all likes on reddit for their "wholesome post".

To top it off, you're considered part of this "community". Like what? You don't speak for me lol. I feel stiffled by how the game is holding me back recently and aside from Savage and Ultimate, 90% of the game is suffering because of its current design philosophy.

I just absolutely hate what this industry has become. Particularly one of the best MMO's I've ever been invested in. You get the usual: "This game isn't for you!" Well what alternative is there really?

[MagiusNecros]

It is getting pretty bad. But Sage and Reaper are looking really good. I want to see how the queues will be come Nov 19. Its very rare to see adventurer in need be tank for all roulettes for several hours.

Well why play a tank if Sage and Reaper are too good.

Right now sadly the only Tank that feels different is Blue Mage.