Whats the deal with tanks recently?

[RinaB]

Like real life, when you pander to mediocrity you end up stagnant and useless. This game is designed for the lowest common denominator and it really shows, especially after the live letter.

[Kes13a]

Like real life, when you pander to mediocrity you end up stagnant and useless. This game is designed for the lowest common denominator and it really shows, especially after the live letter.

the lowest common denominator being people who are condescending and feel they are the "leet" in the forums? Or the ones currently whining about everything and everyone?

I hadnt noticed that part of the player base mentioned specifically. I must have missed it, do you perchance have the link for when that was mentioned?

[Lemuria]

Like real life, when you pander to mediocrity you end up stagnant and useless. This game is designed for the lowest common denominator and it really shows, especially after the live letter.

That's because, listen closely because this is important, they are the majority not the minority. You don't make a game for the tiny 1% of endgame raiders who are absolutely amazing at everything they do. You design a game around the average player who regularly makes mistakes, forgets to dodge an AoE, hasn't quite mastered their heals or their buffs, or is simply new to the content and doesn't know the mechanics. That's who you cater for, because that's the majority of your audience.

I've seen plenty of MMOs which pander to only the elite, and they all universally haemorrhage players until they're either updated to fix it, or die a slow painful death. You are free to jump onboard any one of those sinking ships whenever you like.

I keep getting groups with tanks who NEVER aoe even on trash packs of 5+ and NEVER use their CDs. Its driving me insane. I should not be pulling hate with a gravity while healing because they don't know how to aoe... And don't get me started on the ones who never aoe AND pull 1 mob at a time making a 15min dungeon 40mins long.

So few things
1. YOU HAVE AN AOE COMBO AND IT IS GENERALLY BETTER ON 3+
2. IT IS OKAY TO WIPE. IT IS BETTER TO PULL BIG AND MAYBE WIPE THAN GO AT A SNAILS PACE. "Im new to this" Cool follow the heals or dps then that have done it before and pick everything up.

Toxic "You pull it you tank it" needs to stay in other mmos it has no reason to be in FF its much easier for me to pull as a healer weith my dot and stand next to the tank than the tank trying to target inside a pack of 5mobs.

1. Yes, I do agree tanks should use their AoE skills and rotations where necessary. Most do, but new tanks may still be getting used to their abilities and learning their role. Patience is a virtue. And yes, some tanks are 70+ because they boosted their way there and never actually tried tanking before. Look for the sprout before you judge them too harshly.

2. Please stop encouraging players to do more than they have the capacity for. The 'pull everything' mindset might work for someone who has capped gear, penta-melded to the heavens, but for the average geared player it's a death sentence for them and for the party. It also discourages new players from tanking, because they feel obliged to adapt to a playstyle they're uncomfortable with not to mention they're also the target of blame when they inevitably cause a wipe.

So no. Allow tanks to proceed at their own pace. If you're unhappy with it, then play a tank and be your own shining example of why it doesn't always work. Pull speed is a team effort, not just the tank. If your healer isn't up to scratch, or your DPS can't kill fast enough, you're going to have a rough time of it. A comfortable pace is often faster than trying to race through it, especially if you end up wiping multiple times.

[ForteNightshade]

It's the same with "healer mains" proudly stating that they don't heal avoidable damage or let people die to teach them a lesson, slowing down the entire run while playing the little princess everyone needs to bow to.
I've found that many players that act like this are just salty that their oh-so-important role isn't so important after all and their sense of entitlement is entirely unfounded.
If someone picked a role because they like to feel important, "lead the party", "set the pace" or some other nonsense, they're going to be disappointed.
Tanks and healers don't get special attention or a pat on the head for doing their job and their opinion isn't more important than anyone else's.

I'll never understand the whole "teaching them a lesson" concept because now you've given them motivation to be equally petty. If a DPS/Healer were willing to pull ahead of you before, what makes you think they'll suddenly stop after you intentionally let them die? Now they'll do it to purposefully annoy you. If you let someone die because they stood in AoEs, well now they're refusing a raise and you essentially granted them a free AFK spell. And before anyone says, "I'll report them!" Are you going to report yourself too? They're matching their petty behavior with your own.

It just never seems like a good idea. Either kick the person or tolerate them.

That's because, listen closely because this is important, they are the majority not the minority. You don't make a game for the tiny 1% of endgame raiders who are absolutely amazing at everything they do. You design a game around the average player who regularly makes mistakes, forgets to dodge an AoE, hasn't quite mastered their heals or their buffs, or is simply new to the content and doesn't know the mechanics. That's who you cater for, because that's the majority of your audience.

I do love these extreme arguments. Wall pulling isn't "hardcore endgame raider" caliber. It's making the tank and healer actually have any relevance because single pull trash mobs can be tanked and kills by DPS. They're that weak. Hence why at least medium pulls are standard nowadays. Likewise, expecting tanks to use their AoE isn't endgame game level skills but basic common sense someone should know if they bothered reading their tooltips.

And no, "pull everything" is not just for penta-melded players or those with capped current tome gear. You can wall pull every single dungeon in the game with the minimal ilvl requirement. Hell, I wall pulled from Dong Mheg on at the release of Shadowbringers with the only exception being some of the super pulls like in Qitana or Mt. Gulg since I didn't know about them yet. Expert dungeons is even more of a joke. As are practically every 50-70 dungeon nowadays due to them all being nerfed. Bardam's Mette and Doma Castle are the only ones that can be a bit spicy if you're rocking full Shire but they're about it. Dungeon mobs as a whole are ridiculously weak. Even if you want to be a little cautious, then pull two packs.

[Xtrasweettea]

Tank Complaint with PSA #100.

Look, another person who got inconvenienced in a dungeon by a tank. A context lacking tank they didn’t bring… in a dungeon that is unknown. Not only did they inconvenience you and made you spend more time in a dungeon than you would have liked, but they also made you spend time and calories posting the 100th “Tanks bad with PSA” thread in the Official Forums.

Seriously, there’s no point in making these “tanks bad” threads. Those “bad tanks” you ran into don’t read the forums.

What do you expect of the outcome of this? Do you think tank mains are a collective and we hold meetings or something? Hey fellow tanks, remember to use your AOEs on packs. We got another negative feedback this week. We can’t afford to have any more negative feedback, or we’ll not get our bonuses this quarter. Also, the community wants you to just tank whatever they pull, no questions ask.

If you have a grievance with a tank, bring it up with that tank! Not here. Or better, yet just kick the tank. You have Vote Dismiss for a reason.

[Baxcel]

Look, another person who got inconvenienced in a dungeon by a tank. A context lacking tank they didn’t bring… in a dungeon that is unknown. Not only did they inconvenience you and made you spend more time in a dungeon than you would have liked, but they also made you spend time and calories posting the 100th “Tanks bad with PSA” thread in the Official Forums.

Seriously, there’s no point in making these “tanks bad” threads. Those “bad tanks” you ran into don’t read the forums.

What do you expect of the outcome of this? Do you think tank mains are a collective and we hold meetings or something? Hey fellow tanks, remember to use your AOEs on packs. We got another negative feedback this week. We can’t afford to have any more negative feedback, or we’ll not get our bonuses this quarter. Also, the community wants you to just tank whatever they pull, no questions ask.

If you have a grievance with a tank, bring it up with that tank! Not here. Or better, yet just kick the tank. You have Vote Dismiss for a reason.

Dang it.. your not suppose to mention the meetings!!! Now we gotta hold a new meeting to reschedule the other meeting to another meeting so the DPS don't try and break in again.. plus those dang Astros.. they always find us.. stupid future cards..

But anyways.. your seeing an influx of bad tanks right now because they don't have a method of teaching them that's required.. most tank mains like myself have been maxed on all 4 tanks for a while and only jump back in when new story happens and are spending the rest of the time leveling other jobs or not playing.

So you have new players on tanks.. not being taught because until the hard primals there's only 1 tank per party.. theyre just brute forcing dungeons with players and no one is talk or teaching.. then instead of talking to the player people come on here and screech about bad tanks.. work with them ingame instead of crying about it here.. or better yet.. learn to tank yourself

[Genbe197]

Look, another person who got inconvenienced in a dungeon by a tank. A context lacking tank they didn’t bring… in a dungeon that is unknown. Not only did they inconvenience you and made you spend more time in a dungeon than you would have liked, but they also made you spend time and calories posting the 100th “Tanks bad with PSA” thread in the Official Forums.

Seriously, there’s no point in making these “tanks bad” threads. Those “bad tanks” you ran into don’t read the forums.

What do you expect of the outcome of this? Do you think tank mains are a collective and we hold meetings or something? Hey fellow tanks, remember to use your AOEs on packs. We got another negative feedback this week. We can’t afford to have any more negative feedback, or we’ll not get our bonuses this quarter. Also, the community wants you to just tank whatever they pull, no questions ask.

If you have a grievance with a tank, bring it up with that tank! Not here. Or better, yet just kick the tank. You have Vote Dismiss for a reason.

Yes people resd forums as evidenced by new players posting and commenting here. I did bring it up with the tank, you really think I wouldn't say anything but would come make a thread? I even told them it is a DPS increase for 3+ mobs and how potencies work. Guess what? They still didn't listen.

MY second point was directed at all these people who constantly use the excuse of someone being new. As if wiping deletes your character and makes you pay for 10 subs or something. All wiping does is make you walk for like 30seconds and try again. This weird fear people seem to have about wiping so they cost everyone 15-25mins extra time doing a dungeon. We could wipe every pull and it be faster than doing 1 mob at a time.

The next mentality is some how people seem to think tanks are the leaders of parties when they are in fact not. I can heal dps pulling one group at a time so you arent even needed in that situation. So you should pull more to pull your weight.

[CaedemSanguis]

Imagine being a casual, and you end up being more toxic and elitist than HC raiders lul