Upset about 6.0? It's time to ditch the Scholar.

[MintnHoney]

*snip*

And soon, you'll be telling everyone to wait until 6.1 to see how they tune SCH further before complaining. And soon after that, you'll be telling everyone that it's too late to complain and that they'll just need to wait and see what happens in the next expansion.

Here's the thing, you can certainly continue to keep your hopes about SCH, but the thread brings valid and good advice: if someone does not like the changes to the job, and complaining isn't going to get through to Squeen, then the only thing that can be done is to abandon the job. Most people say to do that spitefully, but it really is the best way to show Squeen that what they've created isn't desirable.

[ItMe]

Here's the thing, you can certainly continue to keep your hopes about SCH,

You seem to misunderstand.
I never said anything about what I hope is happening, or even what I think is happening. I asked for information from someone I thought had it and I don't know how this was misinterpreted.

if someone does not like the changes to the job, and complaining isn't going to get through to Squeen, then the only thing that can be done is to abandon the job.

Yup.
Always send feedback.
I don't understand where it seems like I suggested otherwise.

[tinythinker]

So, like, does it count to level SCH for omni-90 and then abandon it?

[Mortex]

What I miss is the transparency why they don’t use player feedback but rather make these dumb ability changes no one asked. Like the actual most and best change from ShB too EW is that the healer dps spells are only on a 1,5 sec cast time with a 2,5 recast timer and sage being a dps healer but then on the other side you have the other 3 healer getting tossed only the scraps. Like when the best change for your main healer job this expansion is a cast time reduce on your nuke so you can better weave and then you have the new abilities look so absolutely boring and I’m pretty sure all of them are even more abilities for healing you never ever gonna need anyway for 99 % of the content. And then on the other hand have the dps (except physical range) and all tanks ( except poor DRK) getting cool finisher and moves (like Paladin or all meeles) you just feel betrayed ( sounds bit over dramatic but that’s how it feels for me and playing healer for almost 6 years).

[MintnHoney]

You seem to misunderstand.
I never said anything about what I hope is happening, or even what I think is happening. I asked for information from someone I thought had it and I don't know how this was misinterpreted.

Fair enough, but consider the first part of my post: we've all been here before and recognize the signs, seeing a very similar "wait and see" attitude that we've seen in previous expansions. Your replies in this thread, thus far, evoke that same message (you can't possibly know what they're actually doing, as you have no definitive proof, so just wait and see). At this point, I, and many others, would be at a point where we can easily believe Yoshi and his team when they say "we couldn't think of anything to do to SCH" and understand that to mean that SCH's kit isn't gaining anything or changing beyond what they showcased in the video and talked about in the letter.

That isn't to say that they have done nothing to SCH (e.g., we know potency changes will happen everywhere, and we know that they tried to fine-tune the fairies again), only that nothing else is being added. The sad part is that what we really don't know is what's being removed, if anything.

So, like, does it count to level SCH for omni-90 and then abandon it?

Only if, in the dev team's mindset, those who level up and play SMN to 90 get included in what would be considered the "active SCH population." Which I doubt, so I think you're fine to do that without giving them the idea that you're ok with the Job.

[ItMe]

So, like, does it count to level SCH for omni-90 and then abandon it?

Nah, that shouldn't matter.
We don't know much about how they measure popularity / success of a job... except we do know one of their methods.
The devs have said one of the big metrics they look at for how well a class has been received is how many people make the expac's relic for it.

Fair enough, but consider the first part of my post: we've all been here before and recognize the signs, seeing a very similar "wait and see" attitude that we've seen in previous expansions. Your replies in this thread, thus far, evoke that same message (you can't possibly know what they're actually doing, as you have no definitive proof, so just wait and see). At this point, I, and many others, would be at a point where we can easily believe Yoshi and his team when they say "we couldn't think of anything to do to SCH" and understand that to mean that SCH's kit isn't gaining anything or changing beyond what they showcased in the video and talked about in the letter.

That isn't to say that they have done nothing to SCH (e.g., we know potency changes will happen everywhere, and we know that they tried to fine-tune the fairies again), only that nothing else is being added. The sad part is that what we really don't know is what's being removed, if anything.

I understand where you're coming from, and now better understand where wires got crossed.
All I'm saying is saying "they have done X" (when we only have guesses as to what they've done) isn't helpful to the larger conversation.
I appolpgize for conveying this so poorly it's caused issues.

[Gemina]

My first lesson in, "If you don't like what you see. Too bad. It is too late for us to change it." came when the original Mortal Kombat came out for the Super Nintendo, and the early screenshots showed the character Raiden was spelled "Rayden", and everyone was throwing a tiff about it. I believe it was Acclaim who actually addressed it and came out and stated that the game was too far along in the programming stages to change it, and there are deadlines that have to be met (though I think it was actually a legal thing they were not allowed to disclose iirc).

I bring up this little story from the Jurassic period because with just a little over two months left for EW launch, there can only be changes that won't set them back beyond the deadline. And I bring that up because despite how much you will hear and see, "Nothing is concrete". "Wait for the official tooltips." "Need to actually play it." not much is changing from what we saw. Most of it is set in stone, and most of the stuff they will do are final tests and finishing touches; so the rework SCH needs won't magically be thrown our way when we hear from them next in October.

It doesn't end there. A rework of a job takes many, many months of development. There's meetings, debates, outside sources brought in. All matter of resources are summoned involving art and music teams, animation, programming/debugging, all kinds of testing etc. What this means is that for us to get a rework of SCH, they would already need to be working on it; and due to their comment, this hits the SCH main who is aware of this like an anvil. It means that they don't even acknowledge there's a problem with SCH! And if you look at it from a numbers perspective, which I think they do; they will not see a problem with it. Like others have said, I think the only way they will see it, is when they see that no one is playing the job any more.

So forget 6.0, and you can also forget 6.1. We are looking at 6.2 at best, and that is if they acknowledge the issue with SCH yesterday. I already haven't touched my SCH in months, and that is not changing anytime soon. My SCH is not retired. It is on strike.

[Sergie]

As a newer player that's still in the process of leveling up and getting through the main story, the only thing I really feel that Scholar lacks right now compared to the other two healing jobs is more single-target shield/healing abilities that don't cost the preciously limited resources. Keeping a weaker tank alive under heavy wall-to-wall damage can easily make me spend all three Aetherflow stacks on healing in a matter of 5-7 seconds, and Scholar's wonky Adlo-Physick GCD healing loop sure feels a lot less effective than the Cure 2/Lily Cure 2/Benefic 2 spam that WHM and AST can pull for such a situation, barring extreme luck with Adlo crits.

Since they're evidently getting that issue worked on in Endwalker with that oGCD shield they've shown in the job trailer (it's right before the infamous Combat Peloton™), I'm probably going to be playing Scholar more, not less. Just my 2 cents.

[Roeshel]

Keeping a weaker tank alive under heavy wall-to-wall damage can easily make me spend all three Aetherflow stacks on healing in a matter of 5-7 seconds, and Scholar's wonky Adlo-Physick GCD healing loop sure feels a lot less effective than the Cure 2/Lily Cure 2/Benefic 2 spam that WHM and AST can pull for such a situation, barring extreme luck with Adlo crits.

Since they're evidently getting that issue worked on in Endwalker with that oGCD shield they've shown in the job trailer (it's right before the infamous Combat Peloton™), I'm probably going to be playing Scholar more, not less. Just my 2 cents.

Stop overhealing, start DPSing and you will see how redundant GCD heals are. Also, according to the game's design, it is not your job to keep double pulling tanks that eat AoE and don't use mitigation abilities alive. This becomes even more apparent in savage where the tank gets one-shotted if they don't use their abilities. If the tank wants to pull more than 3 mobs they should also accept the fact that they are expected to press something other than their AoE.

[Sergie]

Stop overhealing, start DPSing and you will see how redundant GCD heals are. Also, according to the game's design, it is not your job to keep double pulling tanks that eat AoE and don't use mitigation abilities alive. This becomes even more apparent in savage where the tank gets one-shotted if they don't use their abilities. If the tank wants to pull more than 3 mobs they should also accept the fact that they are expected to press something other than their AoE.

By "spend all three Aetherflow stacks on healing", I, obviously, meant that I was using Art of War on cooldown and using the free weaving space to use my Aetherflow abilities. Unfortunately, no real group of mobs in this game drops dead after 5-7 seconds of combat, or gets even close to dying in that short time span.

It's pretty hard to overheal people whose HP bar often drops 25-50% in a span of one GCD, and I can't exactly always pick the maximum performance groups for my Duty Finder roulettes, so the fact that Scholar is performing significantly weaker in such a common situation is a noticeable detriment to me enjoying playing it right now.

It's still pretty fun to play, but I see this as an area that needs improvement, and improvement it shall hopefully see in Endwalker.