Last thing the world needs is to increase a player's financial burden in a videogame.

[Artemiz]

I don't think it's unfair to say teleporting in Final Fantasy XIV is a necessity. We're sent, so often, to every corner of the world that to try and walk the distance is an unfair debit on the player's time.

Whatever your belief about whether or not an increased teleportation fee is sustainable, whether or not the players can afford it, I don't think it's kind to increase these costs that have remained a fixed point, after so long.

At 1500 gil a teleport, we're in a territory where players will have to seriously begin considering whether or not a teleport is needed. "Maybe it's cheaper to buy this from the market board than from [Endwalker vendor]...", and these sorts of considerations have very troubling allegories in the real world. People are forced, every day, to decide between what's desired and what's necessary.

The XIV team has always been so supportive of players playing this game in a manner that best suits the player. To ensure that the player's enjoyment is paramount. To risk introducing the real life considerations that come along with surviving capitalism into a media meant as a form of - forgive me - Fantasy and escapism, is needlessly cruel.

It's very easy to say "well just run roulettes," or the like, but that's just more accounting. "I got 9000 gil, that's enough for 6 teleports before I have to run another roulette...", and we start treading on very grim wage slavery territory.

I don't have a perfect solution for gil inflation, other than to say that I really don't believe it's a problem that needs solving. Every market in the game is perpetually crashed, and restricting gil gains won't improve that. All I can say is that this is a path I really hope we can steer away from, and try to find a better way.

That's all.

Inflation is a constant problem within any living economy and has to be managed. The markets have crashed because we are so close to a new expansion, over the course of the whole game though they are still far higher than they used to be. Back in 2.0 endgame crafted gear, pre-melded would sell for 70k at best. On most servers it's probably 3 times higher than that now at peak prices. MMO games that don't tackle inflation quickly become extremely difficult for new players to establish themselves and the developers lose the ability to control inflation with things such as vendor or teleportation costs, because the player driven part of the economy makes all vendor transactions completely trivial. It is vital for a healthy economy in an MMO that the developers have the ability to apply the brakes and adjust the valves within the economy, because inflation will destroy that economy if left unchecked.


The big problem with the economy in this game is that gil is almost worthless once you get to a certain point, the RMT must be preying on sprouts or people buying clears because I can't think for the life of me why any established player would even be tempted to use them.

All of the large gil sinks they have put in the game have largely been a failure, housing is a disaster and the two mounts are so fugly I don't think I've even seen one in game yet. By far the most effective way of trickling gil out of the economy in this game is repairs, teleportation costs and market board taxes. They are effectively bills we all have to pay (crafter's get cheaper repairs but still have to pay in the end and leveling crafter's is, in of itself, a gil sink.)

[stilljustacatinacage]

The markets have crashed because we are so close to a new expansion, over the course of the whole game though they are still far higher than they used to be.

I disagree. There are very brief periods where the markets are viable - patches, mostly - but outside of that, prices have been flat since Stormblood. Finding an HQ crafted chestpiece for <100k is not uncommon. The largest driving factor, in my opinion, of the prices is the ease with which new players can access end game crafting. With its streamlined leveling and effective removal of RNG, anyone with the motivation can list 5 HQ DoH tools on the MB at a time to drive the price down.

Several new systems have been introduced since 2.0 to create gil. Some increases are expected, but to say that we are anywhere near a run-away effect is ... Perhaps overly fearful. The only instance where I can imagine a new player might be disadvantaged would be buying gear on a patch day - one of those times where I mentioned prices spike. However, if the concern is that new players are being outpriced from participating in end-game content on patch days, the far simpler solution is to sell raid-ready gear at a vendor rather than siphon gil from the entire population and hope the reduction in purchasing power somehow drives a much larger reduction in supply? I'm doubtful.

[Artemiz]

and we start treading on very grim wage slavery territory.

And you say I'm the one being "overly fearful"? Sure thing.

I disagree. There are very brief periods where the markets are viable - patches, mostly - but outside of that, prices have been flat since Stormblood. Finding an HQ crafted chestpiece for <100k is not uncommon. The largest driving factor, in my opinion, of the prices is the ease with which new players can access end game crafting. With its streamlined leveling and effective removal of RNG, anyone with the motivation can list 5 HQ DoH tools on the MB at a time to drive the price down.

Several new systems have been introduced since 2.0 to create gil. Some increases are expected, but to say that we are anywhere near a run-away effect is ... Perhaps overly fearful. The only instance where I can imagine a new player might be disadvantaged would be buying gear on a patch day - one of those times where I mentioned prices spike. However, if the concern is that new players are being outpriced from participating in end-game content on patch days, the far simpler solution is to sell raid-ready gear at a vendor rather than siphon gil from the entire population and hope the reduction in purchasing power somehow drives a much larger reduction in supply? I'm doubtful.

A massive difference that you don't seem to be considering is that in 2.0 to create that end game gear for 70k you had to be an omni-crafter. Long before all the easy methods to level crafters had been introduced and leves got buffed so the markets where controlled by half a dozen people on each server. It was a huge commitment to get into a position to even make that gear and most of the players where still leveling combat jobs or doing MSQ.

Fast forward to today and anyone can level a crafter to 80 in a day (omni-crafter no longer required) and start knocking out endgame gear with a macro they found on the internet and a few million gil spent on gear and materia. The market for these items has literally only just really crashed, up until maybe a week ago I couldn't make rings fast enough unless I full timed crafting and they were selling for 120k easily enough. In the last week, maybe two, they have finally crashed down to 50-60k, making them not worth doing once mats are taken into account.

So despite how easy it is to get into a position where you can make these items now, compared to how hard it used to be, 3 months before an expansion you could still make far more money, far more quickly than during 2.0 when the markets were far harder to access.

That's inflation, and a lot of it.

[stilljustacatinacage]

they were selling for 120k easily enough.

Cool. Would you mind posting a screenshot of your retainer's sale history?

[Artemiz]

Cool. Would you mind posting a screenshot of your retainer's sale history?

Nice try, but no. I'm not even getting onto a silly argument like that. I'm being genuine and honest, if you don't believe me, cool. Have a nice day.

You are more than welcome to browse on Universalis and research the sales history of any item, on any server. 120k was actually reasonably reserved, some items were closer to 200k only weeks ago, and it was quite common to sell for up to 150k for accessories.

[stilljustacatinacage]

Nice try, but no. I'm not even getting onto a silly argument like that. I'm being genuine and honest, if you don't believe me, cool. Have a nice day.

Right. I thought as much.

[Artemiz]

Right. I thought as much.

Lol, I'm not messing about to provide screenshots of data that's already out of date (and probably now unavailable) just to prove you wrong on something that almost everyone else of the forum knows you're wrong about. I gave you the best resource available (Universalis) so you can go and research everything yourself.

Treat yourself to some in-game education and learn about the economy you seem to have such a problem with.

[redheadturk]

And you say I'm the one being "overly fearful"? Sure thing.


A massive difference that you don't seem to be considering is that in 2.0 to create that end game gear for 70k you had to be an omni-crafter. Long before all the easy methods to level crafters had been introduced and leves got buffed so the markets where controlled by half a dozen people on each server. It was a huge commitment to get into a position to even make that gear and most of the players where still leveling combat jobs or doing MSQ.

Fast forward to today and anyone can level a crafter to 80 in a day (omni-crafter no longer required) and start knocking out endgame gear with a macro they found on the internet and a few million gil spent on gear and materia. The market for these items has literally only just really crashed, up until maybe a week ago I couldn't make rings fast enough unless I full timed crafting and they were selling for 120k easily enough. In the last week, maybe two, they have finally crashed down to 50-60k, making them not worth doing once mats are taken into account.

So despite how easy it is to get into a position where you can make these items now, compared to how hard it used to be, 3 months before an expansion you could still make far more money, far more quickly than during 2.0 when the markets were far harder to access.

That's inflation, and a lot of it.

No, that's called a buyer's market which I actually prefer. I like not having to pay 5 million gil for a full set of crafted gear.

[Artemiz]

No, that's called a buyer's market which I actually prefer. I like not having to pay 5 million gil for a full set of crafted gear.

You seem to be missing the point. Even in this "buyers market" prices, and profits are far higher now than during the "manufacturers market"

What market force do you think might have contributed heavily to that?

[stilljustacatinacage]

You seem to be missing the point. Even in this "buyers market" prices, and profits are far higher now than during the "manufacturers market"

What market force do you think might have contributed heavily to that?

The capacity to earn has increased.

Higher prices are not bad in of themselves. The capacity for a person to purchase is what's important, and with the various systems that are in the game, combined with the state of the markets - that haven't supported 200k rings in ages despite your protestations - means very few items are out of reach of an invested player.