Healers Exist for DPS fun only?

[Boizinho]

Same. Take Voidgate, which is easily the most interesting mechanic of E10S. Any good group will skip it entirely by week four at the latest. Although, it's skipable as early as week two, I believe. Without Voidgate, Shadowkeeper only has one noteworthy mechanic, which just happens to be the worst one—that being the orbs. Cloud doesn't quite suffer from this as her last phase is essentially a repeat but all the others do.

Cloud is an excellent example of doing it right. Empty Plane is the highlight of the fight, and I really enjoy the fact that I still get to do it even this late into the tier where everyone is horribly overgeared. E10S and E11S are just kind of sad now though. You mentioned Voidgate already, but E11S arguably doesn't really test you until Cycles which you just don't see anymore. E2S had this same problem as well, with a mechanic of the same nature and with the same name.

Backloading the mechanics is obnoxious no matter when you're doing the fight. Early prog? Every wipe takes 15 minutes. A bit later when people are geared up a decent amount? It takes until the very end of a fight to find out if your PF "farm" group is actually going to be a farm group. Near the end of the tier? You get "savages" with less going on than Cloud Deck EX.

For anyone familiar with TCGs/CCGs, these fights feel like playing against a beginner's insanely greedy deck with nothing to play for the first 10 turns. The whole game they threaten to play their amazing high-cost, game-winning card, and then unceremoniously die on turn 8 without having ever done anything.

[ForteNightshade]

Cloud is an excellent example of doing it right. Empty Plane is the highlight of the fight, and I really enjoy the fact that I still get to do it even this late into the tier where everyone is horribly overgeared. E10S and E11S are just kind of sad now though. You mentioned Voidgate already, but E11S arguably doesn't really test you until Cycles which you just don't see anymore. E2S had this same problem as well, with a mechanic of the same nature and with the same name.

Backloading the mechanics is obnoxious no matter when you're doing the fight. Early prog? Every wipe takes 15 minutes. A bit later when people are geared up a decent amount? It takes until the very end of a fight to find out if your PF "farm" group is actually going to be a farm group. Near the end of the tier? You get "savages" with less going on than Cloud Deck EX.

For anyone familiar with TCGs/CCGs, these fights feel like playing against a beginner's insanely greedy deck with nothing to play for the first 10 turns. The whole game they threaten to play their amazing high-cost, game-winning card, and then unceremoniously die on turn 8 without having ever done anything.

E11S is just sad nowadays. Granted, PF still sees the beginning of Cycles despite having echo but even a casual static should be easily skipping that. At which point, he's basically a glorified normal mode fight with higher damage. E2S at least has enough going on that skipping Quietus cycles doesn't feel quite as bad but I agree. They sort of get it right in E8S, though I can't tell you have many times I've wiped to Icelight Dragonsong or Mirrors. Granted, E8S' problem is the lengthily cut-scene but that's a different argument. E3S is probably one of the worst examples this whole expansion on gear ruining a fight. It's so heavily backlogged. Levi does practically nothing for 5-6 minutes, which means the majority of his fight, you basically auto-pilot.

The third fights in general were not great this expansion; with Idol of Darkness being one of the worst fights they've ever designed, especially as a healer. But I digress.

While I hated the repetition of Stormblood raids, I actually would be okay if more fights were setup like Cloud where the "highlight" mechanic is repeated only at the very end with the expectation you'll skip in a static.

[Brandedblade]

I just find it weird that they'd state to want to separate raw and shield healers, and then [seemingly] go and upgrade AST and WHM shields of all things, it just... doesn't add up

At the risk of committing the grave sin of being optimistic on a healer thread. a possibility is that they're going to make what they consider an attempt at making tanks take more damage to the point they will need shielding from the healer, AST/WHM would only have the 1 single target shielding to cover the basis, whereas SGE/SCH will have an aoe shield or two on top of that. We certainly won't know until we see/try it. But hey, one of us has to be optimistic.

[Sebazy]

At the risk of committing the grave sin of being optimistic on a healer thread. a possibility is that they're going to make what they consider an attempt at making tanks take more damage to the point they will need shielding from the healer, AST/WHM would only have the 1 single target shielding to cover the basis, whereas SGE/SCH will have an aoe shield or two on top of that. We certainly won't know until we see/try it. But hey, one of us has to be optimistic.

I’d absolutely lap that up if SE were willing to commit to it. Bring back Kefka auto attacks and Twintania Death Sentences pls pls <3

[ItMe]

At the risk of committing the grave sin of being optimistic on a healer thread.

Please, never be discouraged from being optimistic.
People often come to the forums to post when they're upset, and less frequently to post "everything is a-ok."
Optimism is very valuable lest we just post sadness and doomsaying.

[Naoki34]

Thoughts?

I'm starting to get the feeling, even going to tanks, that the other two roles besides DPS exist to solely and completely facilitate their fun.

Ours and tanks, starting in ShB, is second thought.

So for the umpteenth time, Yoshi-P doesn't like players picking on healers who don't want to dps.

So his solution is to remove the dps skills from the healers and let them only have the minimum to be able to level and do the MSQ missions solo.

So the healers have 1 dot, 1 single target skill and 1 AoE.

It's like the solutions for the 2 MSQ dungeons, people don't want to wait for the newbies to watch their cinematics? Well, just watch them all and hello 45 min dungeon in afk cutscenes mode.

He seems to like extreme solutions, as people are animals.

[KizuyaKatogami]

So for the umpteenth time, Yoshi-P doesn't like players picking on healers who don't want to dps.

So his solution is to remove the dps skills from the healers and let them only have the minimum to be able to level and do the MSQ missions solo.

So the healers have 1 dot, 1 single target skill and 1 AoE.

It's like the solutions for the 2 MSQ dungeons, people don't want to wait for the newbies to watch their cinematics? Well, just watch them all and hello 45 min dungeon in afk cutscenes mode.

He seems to like extreme solutions, as people are animals.

It’s horrible game design though. The majority should suffer because he wants to pander to the extreme casuals? Why not address the problem as a whole, create a new hall of the veteran type content at certain points in each expansion, with each one showing people to dps on healer, aoe on dps, etc etc. If people still don’t catch on then, that’s on them. If that’s really how Yoshi feels then that’s honestly ridiculous because they aren’t even creating content that requires a lot of healing. I literally only use one lily on whm in matoya’s relict. I never get to see the blood lily unless i force myself to use the lilies. That’s horrible game design.

[Teno]

So for the umpteenth time, Yoshi-P doesn't like players picking on healers who don't want to dps.

So his solution is to remove the dps skills from the healers and let them only have the minimum to be able to level and do the MSQ missions solo.

So the healers have 1 dot, 1 single target skill and 1 AoE.

It's like the solutions for the 2 MSQ dungeons, people don't want to wait for the newbies to watch their cinematics? Well, just watch them all and hello 45 min dungeon in afk cutscenes mode.

He seems to like extreme solutions, as people are animals.

And the result is the worst gameplay that's ever been for healers, and a role that is completely hated by its community, proof is basically every topic on the healer forum, and the ambient bitterness over there.

[FoxCh40s]

And the result is the worst gameplay that's ever been for healers, and a role that is completely hated by its community, proof is basically every topic on the healer forum, and the ambient bitterness over there.

We had this whole, should Healers DPS squashed in Stormblood; after years of arguing the community as a whole finally settled in that if you didn't dps as a Healer, you were a bad Healer, period. Then they go and reignite the whole damn arguement, and basically side with the Sylphies.

It's absurd. This damn game is about damage. Damage, damage, damage, damage, damage. Nothing else exists except it, there are no nuances to healing, there are no more nuances to tanking anymore, JUST....DAMAGE.

We really need to be done with this damn arguement. If you want to only heal on healers, go play WoW. This is just how this game has always worked, and how it always will.

I just KNOW they are going to double down on this; I know it, the healing community knows it, and everyone one else just doesn't care.

The lower levels of DPS are mind numbingly boring in ARR and HW content, and everyone knows it. Why? Because you push a single button for AoE. Oh that's boring?

*stares in healer*

[Truen]

At the risk of committing the grave sin of being optimistic on a healer thread. a possibility is that they're going to make what they consider an attempt at making tanks take more damage to the point they will need shielding from the healer, AST/WHM would only have the 1 single target shielding to cover the basis, whereas SGE/SCH will have an aoe shield or two on top of that. We certainly won't know until we see/try it. But hey, one of us has to be optimistic.

Try, yes of course. But, let's not pretend SE has done a good job designing healers in the past. The current 1-button dd spam design is the worst iteration of a healing class I've ever seen--in any game.
SCH have never been so boring. For healers in FF14, pessimism is a learned response.