The cat's (or femhroth in this case) outta the bag

[White_Wolf_X]

does anyone play this race? not even a joke i havent seen any yet
only up to stormblood

While not in the miqo'te numbers ( shock i know ) i do see ok many Hrothgar players on Zodiark server daily.

[Iscah]

Reposting for reference since my other post ended up right down the bottom of the previous page – the other mural of Gunnhildr which I think is specifically what the art is either based on or the basis of:

[reivaxe]

They said "focus". I take that to mean putting all their resources into the one race before starting on the other.

That's an assumption, and that's not how production works. A lot of different things at different phases go into making a race or finished product, and "focus" isn't a laser beam of all-the-resources that you point at something until it's done. YP talked about how the big eureka moment was realizing that, if they allowed themselves to release them separately, they would greatly lessen the impact on their development of the game and the strain on their team. We, however, have no idea how production is being managed on these races.

For all we know, they solidified the concept for both genders long ago so that they could add both into the pipeline for new gear and emotes being created for 6.0, allowing themselves to focus on making the 1000s of models and all the emotes from the past ten years fit the Male Viera Parameters without worrying about clearing that huge backlog for Hrothgals yet. Such a course of action could result in them lessening the work for releasing Hrothgals, as there would be less catch up work to do if you know what they look like and are already accounting for them in future designs/ models and their backlog could be finished when the team isn't trying to make stuff like ARR gear fit male Viera.

That's just an example, the point is that we have no idea what their pipeline and timetable is looking like. We only know that they plan to release these 2 options separately/ as they finish them. Any assumption that they couldn't know what Hrothgals look like at this point in time because of that statement is simply a fallacy.

Not if the decision to make her a Roegadyn happened after this initial concept art stage but before they moved on to implementing it into the game as a 3D model.

The only facts we can say for sure is that she was a Hrothgar at this concept stage and a Roegadyn in the game, and the plan was changed somewhere in between. That is not proof they started to build it according to this art.

That's a lot of assumptions there. "They designed her throughout the entire conceptual process to be a Hrothgal, even through the finalized art. BUT, this finalized concept art has no bearing on her final design. They didn't take the concept art into account when making the final product and just made a unique au ra/ viera mixed body for a Femroe for no reason related to any art for this character. The end product was not influenced by the finalized concept at all, and the devs just freestyled the body of an important NPC ... something we haven't seen them do".

If you're arguing aganist me specifically then you're the one conflating arguments, because I never sad it looked like a Miqo'te.

You took a post not directed at you in any way and inserted yourself into the discussion. That original post about occams razor was directed at people trying to convince themselves that this was a Miqote. Establishing that this is intended to be a Hrothgal clears that up and is actually important to other points of discussion.

Also, if you see this as concept art for a female Hrothgar, then it stands to reason that the devs know/ knew what they want them to look like already.

And yes, I agree the concept art is of a Hrothgar.

But no, I do not agree it looks like the specific piece of in-game art you think it matches.

If you can not see the resemblance in these faces then we're going to have to agree to disagree.


Tiny dot for nose indicating that it's small/ prominent human lips/ indication of eyebrows. For anyone who took the mural seriously, this art isn't a shock.
(And most people realize we can't clearly see what's going on with her body in the image we have, so it's not really a point of discussion.)

As I covered earlier, being designed as a Hrothgar up to the stage of this finished art does not inherently mean that it made it further along to the 3D model stage.

And have we proven that it is a fully unique body, or just unique for Roegadyn? I thought people have said it's derived from a Viera, or from Sophia.

Do you have any specific reason to think that the devs would full on freestyle an entire important NPC's body without consulting or creating concept art? That very notion seems like a whole ass element of complexity that isn't needed, given that we can find concept art for everything in this game. Fairly large leap in logic to.

And people simply assumed that because it's pretty. If you care to pick apart the few scenes we get to clearly see her body and compare them to other females in the CC, you'll see the differences. Like I said, her musculature and frame closely resemble a mixture of Au Ra and Viera, but not exactly matching either of them. She even has "slight virgin posture" which makes sense for giving Hrothgals something as close to a hunch as you can get yet still being pretty.

Maybe I'll finish the diagram some day.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

At this point we are mindlessly talking in circles and just arguing the same points over and over..

So far the only true point, is we wont know what they look like untill they release a FINALIZED, and OFFICAL render of an in game 3D Model.

Neither side will win this discussion/debate or be proven right or wrong until they are released.
Or we are shown real offical preview art like they did for the Males

[SkyCake]

I can't wait for their release. So exciting!

[Iscah]

If you can not see the resemblance in these faces then we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I can see the resemblance in those faces (and never claimed otherwise) – but there's just as much in the other mural I linked. It's all very minimalist.

Do you have any specific reason to think that the devs would full on freestyle an entire important NPC's body without consulting or creating concept art?

No, but I didn't say I thought that either.

On the other hand I thought I said quite clearly that it's possible it was an existing model that they've reused from elsewhere – if not an NPC then a humanoid boss.

We also don't know if there was further concept art prepared for the Roegadyn version that made it into the game.



All your argument hinges on your belief that the body model was built for a Hrothgar but they didn't extend it to the head. I simply do not agree that it makes sense as the only possible explanation for why the queen has a unique body shape, to the point that it can be assumed now that it must be what they will look like.

You're welcome to believe it as your preferred answer, but other people are not being wilfully blind just because they disagree with your interpretation.

I don't think the solidity of the evidence is there, and I don't think this new art matches the body shape of the Roegadyn replacement we got in the game.

The murals have committed the devs to an approximate appearance of what Hrothgar will look like when they are made, but the conclusion that they are already made is a step too far into unproven assumption for my liking.

[reivaxe]

I can see the resemblance in those faces (and never claimed otherwise) – but there's just as much in the other mural I linked. It's all very minimalist.

The mural you linked to doesn't even have arms and seems more like a loose interpretation of the character, designed so that you can go "Oh, that's what that thing from the first title card was" once you actually fight it ... so IDK why you're so dead sit on pointing at it.

No, but I didn't say I thought that either.

On the other hand I thought I said quite clearly that it's possible it was an existing model that they've reused from elsewhere – if not an NPC then a humanoid boss.

We also don't know if there was further concept art prepared for the Roegadyn version that made it into the game.

I think that shows a very flawed understanding of how clothing and models are made in this game on your part, as well as willful ignorance of the data provided numerous times.
And IDK if you own any art books for this game, but they don't go into different phases of the conceptual art stage for bosses in the 1 I have. If there's any front/ back art of this character, it would likely be of the Hrothgal shown in the art (And given that people already have the book, I'm inclined to think this is the only art of the queen in it).

All your argument hinges on your belief that the body model was built for a Hrothgar but they didn't extend it to the head. I simply do not agree that it makes sense as the only possible explanation for why the queen has a unique body shape, to the point that it can be assumed now that it must be what they will look like.

You're welcome to believe it as your preferred answer, but other people are not being wilfully blind just because they disagree with your interpretation.

I don't think the solidity of the evidence is there, and I don't think this new art matches the body shape of the Roegadyn replacement we got in the game.

The murals have committed the devs to an approximate appearance of what Hrothgar will look like when they are made, but the conclusion that they are already made is a step too far into unproven assumption for my liking.

I never said my explanation was the only possible 1, I started out simply asking people to not do mental gymnastics to try to say that this is actually a Miqote (as that's clearly disconfirmation bais speaking). You took that and tried to paint a picture where in there are only 2 options, 1 that you made a grossy large assumption in bad faith and another that ignores all data surrounding this topic to brush it off. That "It's either A or B" was you.

Though I never said my explanation is the only one, I do think it's the simplest that doesn't ignore every bit of data we have available to us + makes the fewest baseless assumptions. "The Character was designed to be a Hrothgal up to the finalized art stage, this may be why she has a uniquely non-Femroe body, as she was supposed to be a Hrothgal" is a pretty tame line of thought. This is just a part 2 to my stance since the mural and Queen were revealed that "Oh, this Femroe has a body shape that looks just like these Hrothgar shrine maidens in the mural. This could be an indication of what Hrothgals will look like".

You seem dead set on thinking that the Queen's appearance has nothing to do with Hrothgar if my memory of the other thread is correct, so it's not a shock at all that this convo went this way.
Ehh, like I said many a time ... You do you.

At this point we are mindlessly talking in circles and just arguing the same points over and over..

So far the only true point, is we wont know what they look like untill they release a FINALIZED, and OFFICAL render of an in game 3D Model.

"mindlessly talking in circles" is the exact reason I stopped coming here. Like I said, my interest in discussion on this topic is in prognostication. A number of people here have made it clear that's not what they're into, that you want what you want and refuse to accept anything other than a 3D model when discussing what they will look like.

I myself look at all they're doing and like to make some sense outta it. Arguing "wants" and "shoulds" isn't really my thing, the devs gonna do what they do.
So I think I really will dip out and go back to my reg stumping grounds.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

"mindlessly talking in circles" is the exact reason I stopped coming here. Like I said, my interest in discussion on this topic is in prognostication. A number of people here have made it clear that's not what they're into, that you want what you want and refuse to accept anything other than a 3D model when discussing what they will look like.

I myself look at all they're doing and like to make some sense outta it. Arguing "wants" and "shoulds" isn't really my thing, the devs gonna do what they do.
So I think I really will dip out and go back to my reg stumping grounds.

Well Prognostication wont reach everybody...or even most people. A 3D Model in Game is the Only thing that will prove and Disprove anything. Everything before the Model is pure speculation, no matter how much you bring to the table. I can sit here and argue your idea makes no sense from a design standpoint, and you can counter that it makes sense and we have a handful of proof, I can deny that "proof" based on how the Au-Ra were designed, you can call me blind and say Im ignoring "proof" presented and ask me if I think the devs are trying to fool me, and I can bring up the original design Philosophy behind said race.....this can go in circles forever with neither side budging. The only answer is the reveal we get from the Devs that show the finalized Render.

At the end of the day The Devs will make what they make. Nobody here Im sure thinks they have the power to dictate what will happen...wishes and "what we want" are just that. Just like in the Male Viera Thread.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I wanted them released with ShB! I was so bummed when they were male only. And I am not let down my the concept art either. Don't speak for us all please.

[Nestama]

At the end of the day The Devs will make what they make. Nobody here Im sure thinks they have the power to dictate what will happen...wishes and "what we want" are just that. Just like in the Male Viera Thread.

I just hope they make the faces for them as bestial as the males. If they can reject a male Hrothgar face for looking like a Miqo'te (somehow. It was mostly feline in appearance), then I feel they should do the same for the females. Furry beast race gotta make sense, otherwise it'll be more jarring than Au Ra o: