Serious Question: New Mentor seeking community advice on dealing with bad players.

[Ranylyn]

So you're a mentor, with every single combat job at level 80, despite having only played for a few days?

I just made my forum account today. I've been playing since 2019. Just in case there was any confusion. They synced it up but I still needed to make a forum account (Username, etc) to tie to my main account.


That said, Vyrerus, the Dunning-Krueger effect is a VERY apt thing to bring up. I've been acutely aware of it ever since I first learned about it since I tend to be something of a jack of all trades but master of none. I know enough about things to realize how little I know about things, which used to lead to frustration like "How are others even more ignorant than me on this topic!?" It took me years of my life to reprogram my brain to stop being toxic about it, since I finally learned to acknowledge that I was above average and only recognized my own failures because of it. That's when I grew to understand the failures of others. And I feel like in focusing so hard on my own failures as a mentor, I was basically failing to recognize that it's not always my fault, and being too hard on myself again.

Definitely something to think about!

[Jijifli]

Just do what my own NN has told someone to do on this very question.

Don't give advice. Clearly they don't want it.

Only if they ask you for it, willingly, without even you asking if they want it or not, should you, otherwise, you're deserving of any response you'd get for daring to assist someone.

[AlyaNimfa]

Just 2 cents from a sprout:

Please keep helping and being kind to us! We don't know mechanics and we are learning, it's people who don't flare up and take time to explain before a pull that get us through and teach us. While not every new player will show appreciation a lot of us will listen and will learn. I usually show my appreciation at the end with a comm (even though I don't know if they're really all that sort after).
This game is massive, and even FCs aren't very helpful. It's tough to get things explained, it's demoralizing being in an dungeon and spending more time licking the floor than playing (especially when you have no idea what killed you).
You are appreciated, keep going!
I've never been in a novice network, but I hear they're rough so never really had a desire to figure out how to join it. Random helpy nice people are GREAT.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

In general—like others’ had already mentioned—give advice only when asked.

The only time I personally would proactively give out advice is when said players’ gameplay is so detrimental to the group that it risks wipes, or already wipes the group. Even then I only do so if I’m sure my words are as least offensive as possible, or if I have the energy to handle in event the recipient isn’t being receptive.

Sometimes there are just those days you don’t feel like helping & would rather invest your energy for yourself, and that is fine. Don’t force yourself to help if they’re aren’t willing to receive your help.

[Ranylyn]

Just 2 cents from a sprout:

Please keep helping and being kind to us! We don't know mechanics and we are learning, it's people who don't flare up and take time to explain before a pull that get us through and teach us. While not every new player will show appreciation a lot of us will listen and will learn. I usually show my appreciation at the end with a comm (even though I don't know if they're really all that sort after).
This game is massive, and even FCs aren't very helpful. It's tough to get things explained, it's demoralizing being in an dungeon and spending more time licking the floor than playing (especially when you have no idea what killed you).
You are appreciated, keep going!
I've never been in a novice network, but I hear they're rough so never really had a desire to figure out how to join it. Random helpy nice people are GREAT.

People like you are definitely part of why I love helping newer players. Thank you for doing your best!

People deserve a supportive hand to help them along the learning curve, especially earlier on before markers become standardized. Sometimes things aren't clear or intuitive, and it's super easy to get demoralized. Even I sometimes forget the jank in older fights (Recently, the level 53 dungeon's second midboss made me go "Wait, RED was stack and BLUE was spread, right?" I was right, but I actually paused to question it since it's not clearly telegraphed like later fights that have a very clear Stack Marker!) so how can we expect newer players to have everything mastered already?

You also make a good point about FCs; a lot of them just care about getting more members and not forming a good community. I remember back in 2019 when I world Transferred from Diabolos to Brynhildr to join the same FC as my friends. Before I even loaded in, I had an FC invite from "the biggest FC on the server" just trying to bolster their numbers. It was utterly ridiculous; who was I to these people, and why did they want me? I naturally declined. I wish I had good advice regarding FCs; I just tend to stick with friends these days, due to bad experiences with random ones.

[Krotoan]

The only thing I can find to criticize was your need to "tell off" the tank. It sounds like you tried your best but were hard blocked by the limits of the medium and people you were trying to teach.

Once that tank had tried to say that it was my fault I would have ignored them and left. If a valid attempt has been made and people will not listen or adjust to the point that you cannot pass basic content.. there's nothing more I think anyone could really expect of you.

Arguing with someone like that rarely has a good outcome and there are much better uses of your own time , such as helping people who want to improve or are simply ignorant instead of hopeless.


Keep trying. I think you have the true spirit of the "Mentor" program in mind. There are literally thousands of people out there who are receptive to assistance and guidance and for every "bad seed" there are hundreds of sprouts ready to grow.

[Kolsykol]

Don't offer advice, ask if anyone wants help.
If no, you've done your job.
If they're looking for help and still stink, do your best and you've done your job.

Sometimes someone needs help but doesn't know that they need help.
And it's a total Russian roulette whether they'll lose their shit at you or be grateful.

You shouldn't be rude about it but even if you really bend over backwards to be as polite as you possibly can be people will interpret it as a personal attack if you notice that they're not doing a single positional and/ or are standing in front of the boss and get hit by AoE.
It's like they're embarrassed that someone noticed they don't know what they're doing and instead of accepting the help they get mad.
Heck even if they don't care about positionals and don't even want to make that effort, instead of saying that they often either lie to your face and pretend like they have a permanent true north buff or they get mad.
Or both.

[AziraSyuren]

"Can I offer some advice?"

And, if you get particularly exasperated, apologize preemptively for anything negative about your tone.

Mentoring through example is also an option. Most people don't take note (maybe unless you're playing a healer), but some do, especially your friends who might be new to the game.

[Jettinson]

Experience will always vary, people will learn the hard way or easy way, in the end don't force yourself too hard and chances are better if people ask first.

Major examples always comes to mind with Dun Scaith where people rarely ask about mechankcs but if they die they put question marks or such and then you come in with the help.

Some will pre give advice because many do come from just roulette and want to be done over with just how every run in World of Darkness explain the Cerberus mechanic.
People will tell you off and whatever, nothing you can do about that attitude, just keep yourself chill.

But remember that many do appreciate advice, they have their way of expressive stuff from silent to such

[KageTokage]

I've run into only a single person who retorted with "I'd rather do this blind" when I pointed out the few meaningful mechanics in an ARR EX trial, though I've run into multiple who started getting cheeky when I politely pointed out something they were doing noticeably wrong.