Thinking about Elidibus

[PangTong]

The thing he was having the Warriors of Darkness do was explained in multiple pieces across a long time, but, thank the Twelve, Ardbert just summarized it when he was falling for Urianger's "Hey, why don't you just kill the Warrior of Light instead?" misdirection.

Wow, that went over my head. I think when I read this line I assumed that the "new god" they were referring to was Zodiark, or perhaps the next primal to be summoned by the beast tribes, but with that context neither of those makes a whole lot of sense. I'd be curious to know if there were other clues I missed.

Thanks for all the responses. While I've got the ear of some experts there's one other slightly less serious thing I've always found a bit weird about the Ascians in the story:

At some point the Ascians decide that the biggest obstacle in the way of their goal is the Warrior of Light, and so they set about trying to find ways to kill us or otherwise use us. But it's like... the Ascians are immortal. The Warrior of Light is not. They've already spent thousands and thousands of years just on the seven calamities they've managed so far. Just... wait for us to die lol? Even if we assume the Warrior of Light/the soul of Azem will just continuously reincarnate, there must surely be periods of some years where they're not capable of much (presumably our character was a baby at some point). And wouldn't said reincarnation happen anyway even if the Ascians killed us? Seems a lot less risky to just wait a bit than trying to get stuff done while we're around, and getting permakilled in the process.

I guess you can just put it down to the Ascians underestimating us, or maybe they just think it'd be a shame to put all the plans they've been working so hard on on pause and potentially have their projects (like Garlemald) go up in smoke, but even so, they literally have all the time in the world. I suspect the real reason for this is "because the story needs to happen," so if they ever actually give a strong reason for why the Ascians are in such a damn hurry to cause the 8th so soon after the 7th, I'll be really impressed.

[Anonymoose]

I assumed that the "new god" they were referring to was Zodiark

For what it's worth, I thought the same thing, lol - maybe the time had come to divert energy towards that snowball. But maybe it was just a new primal to match the calamity plan. If an answer beyond that was there to be found it went over my head, too.

Just... wait for us to die lol?

Ahaha, I agree that Oda might say of this one, "Please do not think too hard about this." A video game needs a story, and we wouldn't get much of one if the Ascians said, "Hey, how about we just let him think he's won for now, and we'll time it so Hydaelyn's next champion is easy to just have hit by a chocobo carriage." I think we might be able to patch a "good enough" bandaid over it if we assume once the Warrior of Light slipped the leash Lahabrea thought he had them on, the Ascians had to kill them or outdo them but just leaving them alone they'd keep fighting until they caused a Flood.

[PangTong]

Ahaha, I agree that Oda might say of this one, "Please do not think too hard about this." A video game needs a story, and we wouldn't get much of one if the Ascians said, "Hey, how about we just let him think he's won for now, and we'll time it so Hydaelyn's next champion is easy to just have hit by a chocobo carriage." I think we might be able to patch a "good enough" bandaid over it if we assume once the Warrior of Light slipped the leash Lahabrea thought he had them on, the Ascians had to kill them or outdo them but just leaving them alone they'd keep fighting until they caused a Flood.

As just a pure conjecture theory I think you could maybe come up with something plausible like, even with the machinations of the Ascians, the conditions for a calamity aren't completely in their control and there's all sorts of timing issues with regards to aetherial and temporal alignments that they have limited/no power over. So they have no way of knowing when the next opportunity for a calamity will arise which is why they typically take thousands of years. So having an opportunity present itself just 5 years after the previous calamity was an insane stroke of luck and too good to pass up, so they just had to try and take their chances and work around the WoL.

That's just me spitballing a reasonable explanation though, it's based on absolutely nothing. I dunno if it even completely jives with the lore since they seem to be trying to cause multiple different kinds of calamities one after another each time they're thwarted. I'd be really surprised if in Endwalker they manage to give a solid explanation that actually ties into the narrative, like we learn that they're working on a time limit that they've only recently discovered or something which is why they're now desperately accelerating.

Another thing to recall is Elidibus' status as a primal avatar of Zodiark. The exact mechanics of this are a bit murky, but the point is that he is effectively himself a Primal of Salvation, be it as a part of Zodiark or as something bound to Zodiark.
It therefore follows that the wish and intent with which Zodiark was summoned is itself a part of Elidibus' inherent nature, right up to his death. That nature being the charting of restoration for this Star which brings it salvation and restores order.
It therefore follows that Elidibus is inherently meticulous, his plans are comprehensive, and he doesn't tolerate chaos beyond where it is useful to his/Zodiark's objectives. In the big picture, restoring balance matters once the likes of Lahabrea have inflicted some necessary imbalance in service to the cause.

I quite like this explanation actually. The idea of a Darkness primal who seeks balance with Light does feel kind of "off" in some respects, but there's precedent for primals that are selfless (or at least not entirely selfish) to some degree. If we think of Zodiark as a primal of salvation and restoration then Elidibus' preoccupation with balance does make a bit more sense, if we're assuming that he doesn't just say that to trick people.

Although, if we assume that Elidibus' interest in balance is an extension of Zodiark's will, it does kind of raise the question of why Zodiark and Hydaelyn ended up fighting. If it were true, he should have had no problem with a Light-based counterpart to himself. Which would imply that Hydaelyn was the aggressor. I guess we'll find out.

[Catapult]

Which would imply that Hydaelyn was the aggressor.

If that's the charge against Her, it's not wrong. She was summoned to be his shackles.
The charge against Him is that His solution is no better than the problem. And that's not wrong either.
Are we looking forward to Endwalker?

[PastelGothGuy01]

For what it's worth, I thought the same thing, lol - maybe the time had come to divert energy towards that snowball. But maybe it was just a new primal to match the calamity plan. If an answer beyond that was there to be found it went over my head, too.

Ahaha, I agree that Oda might say of this one, "Please do not think too hard about this." A video game needs a story, and we wouldn't get much of one if the Ascians said, "Hey, how about we just let him think he's won for now, and we'll time it so Hydaelyn's next champion is easy to just have hit by a chocobo carriage." I think we might be able to patch a "good enough" bandaid over it if we assume once the Warrior of Light slipped the leash Lahabrea thought he had them on, the Ascians had to kill them or outdo them but just leaving them alone they'd keep fighting until they caused a Flood.

I know this might sound a lil Farfetched but...But don't you think the new Primal they might want to make is actually "Our WoL himself"?...Get him some place and sacrifice him to make a new primal, i got this idea because of that quest with Omega weapon where omega wanted to see our potential and even imprisoned us in a ball like thing to use our power to make us or turn us into an even more stronger being?...like you know,A Primal and we would end up becoming exactly like Elidibus?...

[Cleretic]

I know this might sound a lil Farfetched but...But don't you think the new Primal they might want to make is actually "Our WoL himself"?...Get him some place and sacrifice him to make a new primal, i got this idea because of that quest with Omega weapon where omega wanted to see our potential and even imprisoned us in a ball like thing to use our power to make us or turn us into an even more stronger being?...like you know,A Primal and we would end up becoming exactly like Elidibus?...

It's possible, but I'd say it's unlikely. Remember that we've got two factors involved in 'Elidibus trying to make the tribes summon a different god': Elidibus, and the tribes. And neither of them liked us much.

To Elidibus, we're a constant thorn in his side that's grown to the point of needing a specific emergency plan to kill us dead. Making his problem bigger makes the problem worse, and this is after both the WoL and a primal have already killed Ascians.

And to the tribes--specifically the tempered ones, at that point? We keep killing their gods. And people generally tend to like the gods they worship, so we are some kinda Satan to them. Gonna be real hard to convince them to worship the thing that's clashing against their god and making life even harder for them.

Now, if there were actual evidence that this is what they were shooting for, these are theoretically things that you could explain around; Elidibus might consider a primal-summoned Warrior of Light more controllable despite all evidence to the contrary, and... well, Satanists do exist, so theoretically an opposing figure to a tribe's god would gain followers. But both of those are reaches, and they're reaches toward a conclusion that not only is there no evidence for, but there will be no evidence for, because both the plan and every single participant in it is dead (except Urianger, but he was against the plan anyway). So it's kinda folly to expect that the plan may have angled for something much more elaborate, since nobody would do anything with it. If we learned that was the plan, it wouldn't matter, because nobody still alive cares about the plan.

[PastelGothGuy01]

I'm not saying Elidibus himself would want to turn us into a primal i'm talking about the people that look up to our WoL...And if that happened our WoL would end up becoming Exactly like Elidibus...A Primal to try and help save the star...And at some point "The Ascians" did want to use our WoL as their pawn for their "Neferious" plans cus they saw potential in him,that is until they made our WoL angry.

[Larirawiel]

I'm not saying Elidibus himself would want to turn us into a primal i'm talking about the people that look up to our WoL...And if that happened our WoL would end up becoming Exactly like Elidibus...A Primal to try and help save the star...And at some point "The Ascians" did want to use our WoL as their pawn for their "Neferious" plans cus they saw potential in him,that is until they made our WoL angry.

Elidibus sacrified himself to become Zodiark's heart. I doubt, that the WoL would do that. But it is theoretically possible, that we can become a primal like Shiva or Tsukuyomi or Anima. If the prayers are strong enough and there are some aether crystals ...


Cheers

[Catapult]

Just... wait for us to die lol?

See, I think this is not a plothole anymore by the time we get into Shadowbringers. The Ascians have a problem where unlike in previous eras, they are being hunted by people who have worked out how to actually kill them.
Stepping back for a while would necessitate playing defensively, which gives your opponents the opportunity to attack, and they are presenting as innovative in doing so.

Ergo, Elidibus was running out of options.