Who is your least favorite major character and why?

[Kozh]

Again, no one would have done anything were it not for us that literally isn’t an argument. We’re the mc. Also, that was years ago. How is that man supposed to even know where to begin to find those victims? He was attempting to repent in the only way he seemed to know how. I mean, for all we know it’s legal in the game world. Messed up? Sure, but so are many other things. Why would Hien do anything. It’s something that happened years ago and the man was a soldier. What’s he supposed to do? Tell him he’s not allowed to fight for his country and he has to go to jail for something that’s legal and happened years ago? He did repent, you may not see it that way but…oh well lmao. At least he tried unlike Yotsuyu.

Usually I'd agree with you, but this whole yotsuyu topic is kinda a miss from the devs.

One thing after reading all the dialogue again, jifuya is very clearly joining the front not because 100% due to guilt. He himself stated that joining the front is to run from his mistake. And I have to agree with others that going into war isn't the best way to repent yourself. This is a more of personal belief, but I think people need to redeem directly to their victim should it is possible. And back then, he was given a chance to do it since he meet her again, but no he run away again by accepting being moved to different outpost right away. If he trully regret it, he should apologize to her even if that means he could be dead.

As for hien, while I don't think he done anything wrong since they kinda still need people for army, but his words are poor and makes him look like uncaring. Interestingly, this is only a problem with the English translation, since the Japanese dialogue doesn't say anything about "I don't support nor condemn it. Frankly it's not my place to judge". He only said "thank you for your work. To think that couregous man like jifuya would flee, yotsuyu still makes people afraid"

You maybe forget it, but yotsuyu kind of try to repent too, to some extent. When her memory was returning and she remembered she did horrible thing to the people at namai, she kneels down and apologized. When she finally got her memories back, she tried to kill herself due to the guilt and because she thinks she doesn't deserve gosetsu kindness.

[Crushnight]

Zenos, without a doubt, no matter what happens in Endwalker he will always be a terribly written villain, because if it takes over 4 years of writing for your villain to have a narrative purpose they are a terribly written antagonist.

Yes Elidibus falls into this as well but guess what he at least at this point has a permanent send off and he actively played a part in manipulating the plot.

Zenos's last impact on the plot, killing his father and you can't say only Zenos could kill Varis especially giving Nerva and Varis's uncle, that happened over 2 years ago, 2 years of writing and still he has achieved nothing, every antag must fade, everything returns to boredom, everything else since then has all been Fandaniel's plan that Zenos has just gone with, Fandaniel is driving the plot forward into Endwalkers not Zenos.

The dude you are hyping up a boss fight with is not the dude driving the plot at all there is a problem.

Then there is Zenos's second major problem, he willingly died and came back against his wishes, this is never addressed, the man committed suicide yet this had no affect on him at all like it never happened, this then compounds the issue of why the hell should I care about beating up this man again, there is no stakes because if he comes back when he willingly killed himself why should I believe he will be permanently dead when I do it?

That second point is my biggest gripe with Zenos living atm, it ruins his last scene in 4.0 completely and taken all tension out of beating his butt again. I just don't care what happens to him I just want him gone from the story.

Nearly as much as G'raha's fanboying which is a trait I hope they either pull back on or just faze out completely.

[Ryaz]

Zenos... I'm not a fan of the one dimensional blood knight type in the first place, but they're not bad for a one off villain. As an overarching villain, though, I just don't think he works that well because he has no depth.

[Kyrj]

Just about any of the Ascians. For as powerful as they claim to be they sure do a whole lot of nothing just to get smacked around by a WoL with a white crystal. Imagine getting clapped by a Lalafell with a JO crystal.

[Vyrerus]

If it takes 4 years

Zenos has had a narrative purpose for 4 years. You just don't like how much of a slow burn it has been. Nobody does.

Zenos killing Varis was huge. It's what turned the empire upside down. We haven't even been shown Nerva or Varis's uncle. Only heard of them through exposition. Zenos has achieved the destruction of Garlemald, and also destruction of the stores of Black Rose. I know people like to forget that, but we get insights into Zenos every time he actually does something, and this bit was showing that he has some sense of honor (Black Rose is what he's referring to when he says, "Cowardly Weapons.").

Emet-selch literally didn't drive the plot in SHB until the events on Mt. Gulg. He observed, while Exarch drove the plot, and then stepped in taking over in the final act. He was a curiosity until then, highly interesting, but driving nothing.

I think they're falling back on that as a mystery to be answered. I'd like to know what he thought when he died. This time we can kill him ourselves, like how we kill Ascians. Auracite or something similar. If we kill him at all.

[Vyrerus]

He has only 2 character traits.

A common line of thought, but a misconception.

Zenos Character Traits
- Honorable (WMDs/Bio weapons are cowardly to him)
- Superiority Complex (Judges other fighters, is rarely wrong)
- Master Moralist (Has his own moral code)
- Prone to anger (Kills/hurts subordinates for failure)
- Doesn't like hypocrites/cowards (Killed subordinate Officer who didn't personally lead his troops, after said Officer agreed with him that the XIIth is no place for the weak)
- Adaptable (Though he killed himself, he thought death was the end. When he found it wasn't, he changed course)

It took a long while for Zenos to reclaim his body, and even after reclaiming it, he isn't aware of the WoL's return to the Source. Within this time period, he meets Fandaniel.

One might wonder why he did not at least make a move on our home, since he's not bound by anything or anyone anymore, before we even got back, as to wait closer to us. We don't and might not get an answer, but I think it has to do with the fact that he knows we also possess the Echo. Since he came back to life using the abilities he gained from the Resonance, the artificial Echo, he likely knows that we can use it to do the same. Then there's the new information he gained from Elidibus. It's messy but he knows about Zodiark and Hydaelyn. What could he actually do with that info, though, on his own? It's not like Garlemald has a library devoted to such things, and I doubt even his Garlean education equipped him to go globetrotting looking for the primals themselves.

But he also knows that the Ascians are a collective, and that they built Garlemald for their own ends. They know where Zodiark and Hydaelyn are, so he waits. Waiting is boring, but it's all he could do. Enter Fandaniel. He has the knowledge Zenos needs, and Zenos has the power that Fandaniel likely needs. Zenos doesn't like working with him, as shown by the weapon choosing scene. Likewise, Fandaniel wants Zenos to die too, as Zenos is part of everyone and everything. But he needs Zenos, even just as a contingency plan for his own demise. It's a dynamic, and I'm hoping to see more of it, better done in Endwalkers, when they go from being the Meanwhile scenes to being the stars of the stage.

[Uvi_AUT]

The queen of Uldah. She is always whining about her not having Power and not being listened to.
Guess what, if you want people to take you seriously, DONT WEAR PINK CLOTHES, A HEARTSHAPED NECKLACE AND PINK PONYTAILS!
She doesnt look like a ruler, more like something you have to pay extra on Onlyfans.

[Kolsykol]

This thread is kinda proof NA and EU prefers deep/sympathetic villains.
Kinda a shame really. I love zenos because he's simple and knows what he wants. He's just that simple baddie of old.
I don't mind villains with some kinda deep motivation like emet but it gets tiresome and its nice to have someone like zeno's who's just pure evil for the sake of it and we have to defeat.

I think it's moreso that people like villains/ characters that makes them *feel* smart.
It's quite evident looking at AAA gaming and what games are held up as these great narrative masterpieces.
It's mostly pretty shallow where '' sad '' equates to brilliant and deep and where production value carries it super ultra hard.

Obviously not saying that FFXIV haven't had deep villains but moreso that I think a lot of people like *only* villains with big speeches about '' deep '' issues or who are sad dads etc because of how they make them feel.
There's a certain level of snobbery a lot of people have about this where they unironically act embarrassed to like something '' stupid '' and where taking something and making it '' less fun '' and more sad makes it '' more grown up ''.
I remember when Code Vein and DMC5 were coming out for example and there were articles coming out where journalists were essentially trying to prove to people and their collegues how very aware they were that they were '' stupid games '' and to please not judge them for having enjoyed them.

A lot of Japanese games with genuinely deep characters get shoved aside because the presentation is a bit wacky and Japanese too.
Ultimately I think that the interest of a lot of people when it comes to this is very shallow and more about some wanting to feel like what they're spending their time on is important and has some kind of a meaning but that's all there is.

[Enkidoh]

A common line of thought, but a misconception.

Zenos Character Traits
- Honorable (WMDs/Bio weapons are cowardly to him)

Not true. Black Rose's development was actually restarted in Ala Mhigo under his watch (after Gaius had previously ordered a stop to it), the only reason he killed Varis before it could be used was he learned it was responsible for the death of his 'prey' in the future prime 8th Calamity timeline which is something he could not abide by.

It wasn't for 'honour' or charity, it was simply to prevent him being denied the WoL for his last glorious battle (although I do concede his comment to Varis when Zenos assassinated him about preventing him using his "cowardly weapons" of mass destruction).

But remember, he ends up basically destroying the Empire wholesale and turned it into literally hell on Hydaelyn, so a preference for not using a aetherochemical agent of mass death like Black Rose for being "cowardly" rings a little shallow.

[Vyrerus]

Not true. Black Rose's development was actually restarted in Ala Mhigo under his watch (after Gaius had previously ordered a stop to it), the only reason he killed Varis before it could be used was he learned it was responsible for the death of his 'prey' in the future prime 8th Calamity timeline which is something he could not abide by.

It wasn't for 'honour' or charity, it was simply to prevent him being denied the WoL for his last glorious battle (although I do concede his comment to Varis when Zenos assassinated him about preventing him using his "cowardly weapons" of mass destruction).

But remember, he ends up basically destroying the Empire wholesale and turned it into literally hell on Hydaelyn, so a preference for not using a aetherochemical agent of mass death like Black Rose for being "cowardly" rings a little shallow.

Restarted by Zenos himself under Zenos's auspices? Source? Where's the production facility in Ala Mhigo?

As I remember it, the production of it was stopped by Gaius, but the researchers/staff responsible for its creation didn't actually dispose of all of it. Or at least not properly. It was Varis and Elidibus who rekindled production, after Zenos had killed himself. I remember we find some in East End in The Fringes, but I mean, I don't remember one single facility actually in Ala Mhigo or its surrounding areas.

While it's true the main reason he kills Varis and disposes of Black Rose is due to that new information, the fact that he does consider it cowardly and didn't restart Black Rose production in Ala Mhigo at all means that he does possess a modicum of honor.