Open plea to the Devs

[Nepentha]

I never understood why SE wouldn't do this tbh. Or let you buy the deed on MB or something.

It defeats the spirit of what housing was intended to be, that's probably why. It's not against the ToS to sell a home or the relocation into a plot, but they weren't intending for it to be like this.

With the timer you can't do it with personal houses anymore. Resellers have adapted in two ways.

1. Creating FCs, leveling them up to 6, and bot clicking their way into recently demo'd homes. Then resell them for 10x to 70x the placard cost depending on location and server. Wait 24 hours, start a new FC, level it to 6 and rinse/repeat.

2. Ward scanning via bot to snap up any medium or large homes that demo, usually before others are even aware of it. Then sell the relocation into that plot. (Anywhere from 100 million to a billion gil depending on size and location of the lot and which server it's being sold on.) This second one also requires a small plot to be open somewhere for them to relocate into when releasing the plot they are selling to the buyer.

And this is how the timer hasn't done much to stop the housing resale market. I don't think it's even slowed it down.

Be interesting to see if the lotto affects them, too. SE mention revisions to relocation, but no idea what those will be.

And honestly, unless they also look into how FC master is handed over to someone, the resale market will sail on. The only thing that will put a serious dent in their markets is to release enough housing that you won't feel pressured to buy from them anymore.

[Almagnus1]

1. Creating FCs, leveling them up to 6, and bot clicking their way into recently demo'd homes. Then resell them for 10x to 70x the placard cost depending on location and server. Wait 24 hours, start a new FC, level it to 6 and rinse/repeat.

The other issue with this is it allows for a way to involve RMT as the purchase transaction is separate from the property transfer.

2. Ward scanning via bot to snap up any medium or large homes that demo, usually before others are even aware of it. Then sell the relocation into that plot. (Anywhere from 100 million to a billion gil depending on size and location of the lot and which server it's being sold on.) This second one also requires a small plot to be open somewhere for them to relocate into when releasing the plot they are selling to the buyer.

I mean, all you need is a bot that's smart enough to fire off keyboard/mouse clicks, wait for the incoming network packets, rinse and repeat. Throw in enough other things to simulate the keys strokes to navigate to the menus and you don't actually need ingame data for this. Only thing you need ingame data for is targeting the main aetheryte in the cities so you can get access to the neighborhood information.

[Nepentha]

The other issue with this is it allows for a way to involve RMT as the purchase transaction is separate from the property transfer.

Yes, that is also an issue. Post about wanting to buy an FC house on Discord and at least one RMTer will contact you. The problem is only growing as housing availability gets tighter. They get banned, but they just come back on new accounts and it's rinse/repeat.

I mean, all you need is a bot that's smart enough to fire off keyboard/mouse clicks, wait for the incoming network packets, rinse and repeat. Throw in enough other things to simulate the keys strokes to navigate to the menus and you don't actually need ingame data for this. Only thing you need ingame data for is targeting the main aetheryte in the cities so you can get access to the neighborhood information.

There's one already out there that's quite popular. I can't name it here, but it's what the resale botters are using, as well as ordinary players sick of the clicking game.

[Sotaris]

It defeats the spirit of what housing was intended to be, that's probably why. It's not against the ToS to sell a home or the relocation into a plot, but they weren't intending for it to be like this.

With the timer you can't do it with personal houses anymore. Resellers have adapted in two ways.

1. Creating FCs, leveling them up to 6, and bot clicking their way into recently demo'd homes. Then resell them for 10x to 70x the placard cost depending on location and server. Wait 24 hours, start a new FC, level it to 6 and rinse/repeat.

2. Ward scanning via bot to snap up any medium or large homes that demo, usually before others are even aware of it. Then sell the relocation into that plot. (Anywhere from 100 million to a billion gil depending on size and location of the lot and which server it's being sold on.) This second one also requires a small plot to be open somewhere for them to relocate into when releasing the plot they are selling to the buyer.

And this is how the timer hasn't done much to stop the housing resale market. I don't think it's even slowed it down.

Be interesting to see if the lotto affects them, too. SE mention revisions to relocation, but no idea what those will be.

And honestly, unless they also look into how FC master is handed over to someone, the resale market will sail on. The only thing that will put a serious dent in their markets is to release enough housing that you won't feel pressured to buy from them anymore.

Yeah I understand that, naively I think we might not even needed have a timer situation:
- if you were just "forced" to sell your deed, so eliminating the relocation in one go.
- You could still just buy a new plot in new ward but if you wanted a house you had to sell it (and it would default to a market value, like how wow token value is calculated on their AH).
- Demo houses deeb would automatically either go back on MB by the game or let back to the market so you just could buy the plot like in a new ward
But we're too far gone for that now.

[Jojoya]

And this is how the timer hasn't done much to stop the housing resale market. I don't think it's even slowed it down.

It's definitely slowed it down. Before they could buy up anything as it became available then sell to anyone who wanted it. Now there are some obstacles in the way.

-They have to be able to obtain a house with their mule before they can snap up whatever mediums/larges become available. That means fighting against the timer and other players trying to purchase the same plot.

-They can only sell to new buyers willing to forego membership in a legit FC or who are willing to disband their current FC to rejoin the one that owns the house (if purchasing for a FC).

-They can only sell to relocators who are willing to pay a premium for the specific plot the flipper possesses. Not going to be a problem if the flipper is trying to sell a medium or large they lucked out on getting. Definitely would be a problem for the majority of smalls.

It is also never a problem that will go away as long as plots remain limited in quantity. It doesn't matter what obstacles SE tries to put in the way, players will always find a way to turn the situation to their advantage. That is why an improved purely instanced housing system is needed, and I'm not referring to simply adding options to apartment sizes. Balmung is at the point that players can start flipping apartments just as they have been flipping plots because SE will not implement a system the dynamically expands supply as the available supply gets consumed. Players who have apartments they aren't using can offer to relinquish them for a fee so someone desperate even to get an apartment will have one to buy.

SE has got to pull their head out of the sand when it comes to the mess they've made with the system. A new housing district and adding a lottery is not going to fix things.

[Nepentha]

It's definitely slowed it down. Before they could buy up anything as it became available then sell to anyone who wanted it. Now there are some obstacles in the way.

-They have to be able to obtain a house with their mule before they can snap up whatever mediums/larges become available. That means fighting against the timer and other players trying to purchase the same plot.

Incorrect. They have 7 to 8 FC houses they use to ward scan/relocate bot with. When they grab a large/medium demo, they move the ward bot to another FC to repeat the process. When they have a buyer for the large or medium plot, they sell it strictly as a relocation. And then relocate into an open small plot where the timer is still ongoing. Rinse/repeat.

It's a never ending cycle so long as there are people out there desperate to upgrade to a larger plot.

-They can only sell to new buyers willing to forego membership in a legit FC or who are willing to disband their current FC to rejoin the one that owns the house (if purchasing for a FC).

And there are a lot of people willing to do this, as evidenced on the housing discords. People are even advised to get an FC house this way, just wait to find a seller and form your FC around that.

-They can only sell to relocators who are willing to pay a premium for the specific plot the flipper possesses. Not going to be a problem if the flipper is trying to sell a medium or large they lucked out on getting. Definitely would be a problem for the majority of smalls.

Small relocations aren't really a thing unless they are in premium plots, beachfronts, etc. But FCs with small houses are definitely a thing. This is how resellers have adapted. Keeping track of a few of the more busy ones, in just the last 30 days, they've managed to snag and flip 42 FCs with houses. (This is across all Crystal Data Center servers, mind.) They sell them for anywhere from 60 to 210 million depending on the plot and server. This isn't anecdotal evidence here. I've watched it happen in real time, keeping track of it. And I'm sure 42 isn't anywhere near the actual amount being flipped in the last 30 days. Just the ones I've picked up on.

It is also never a problem that will go away as long as plots remain limited in quantity. It doesn't matter what obstacles SE tries to put in the way, players will always find a way to turn the situation to their advantage. That is why an improved purely instanced housing system is needed, and I'm not referring to simply adding options to apartment sizes. Balmung is at the point that players can start flipping apartments just as they have been flipping plots because SE will not implement a system the dynamically expands supply as the available supply gets consumed. Players who have apartments they aren't using can offer to relinquish them for a fee so someone desperate even to get an apartment will have one to buy.

SE has got to pull their head out of the sand when it comes to the mess they've made with the system. A new housing district and adding a lottery is not going to fix things.

On this we can agree.