PLD needs an oGCD damage ability for their Oath Gauge

[Mikey_R]

Sheltron's inended purpose is damage mitigation. Whethe ryou want to use it for Tank Busters or softening auto attacks, that is it's role, the same as any other damage mitigation skill, except, obviously, Vengeance (but I will get to that).

However, I fail to see how adding a damage counter to Sheltron/Intervention changes things up? You would still use them almost on cooldown to get the damage, making it effectively the same as any other damage skill, you just need a hit to activate it. It doesn't really change how you tank and it is just another thing you have to weave. However, this is all assuming the damage is somewhat potent. This is where we can start talking about Vengenace.

I had a very quick look around FFLogs for the damage Vengeance gives someone in a fight. I found one, 4 casts, got 13 counter hits off of it, which equated to 0.6% of the total DPS. With the case for Vengeance, since it has a 2 minute cooldown, you can only get a certain number in a fight dependant on it's duration, this means you have a bit more flexibility in when you can use it without losing a use. Overall, the damage from Vengeance is just not that significant and completely non-existent if there are no physical attacks at all.

This is where we can come back to Sheltron/Intervention counter, if you want it to be more flavour, like Vengeance, then it will have a weak potency to compensate. Quick maths (below), taking into account optimal Vengeance and continuous use of Sheltron/Intervention, puts the potency at ~51.3 for it to match the usefulness of Vengeance. If you compare that to Intervene, 200 potency, 30 second cooldown, it is just weak. There would be no satisfaction in using it. Make it too strong and would people care more about getting the most out of the damage you get rather than having a tool to mitigate damage which in turn reduces PLD's options.

So really, it depends on how you want to treat it, more as a mitigation tool, where you lose nothing, or more as a DPS tool, where, if it is a DPS tool, you also lose mitigation where you might need it (or, it might line up, who knows). Personally, I would keep it as a mitigation tool only as I see no value in trying to add an offensive option to it. Yes, Shield Swipe used to exist, but that proced off of any block and you could activate the block proc before the cooldown was complete, so you still had a good chance of using it whener it came off of cooldown. Plus, Sheltron used to have the benefit of giving MP, which was very tight in the SB days so using Sheltron helped DPS in several ways.


Quick and dirty maths:

Going for optimal damage from counters so assume we get 5 counters (3 second AA delay, 15 second duration, 15/3 = 5 counters)
Potency of counter is 55, 55*5 = 275 potency total per Vengeance use.
Vengeance has a 2 minute cooldown, so 275/120 = 2.29 potency per second.
Takes 22.4 seconds to charge 50 gauge (2.24 AA * 10) 2.29*22.4 = 51.3 potency per cast.
I have obviously assumed potency can be shared between jobs (though going between 2 tanks should be fine) and no buffs.

To compare the 2.29 potency per second to other attacks:
-Abyssal Drain 3.33 PPS
-Intervene 6.67 PPS
-Carve and SPit 7.5 PPS
-Requiescat 9.17 PPS
-Upheavel 15 PPS
-Blasting Zone - 26.67 PPS

I think the point can be made about how insignificant the vengeance counters are.

[Lyth]

Sheltron's intended purpose is damage mitigation.

Intent is a hard thing to prove.

In Stormblood, Sheltron impacted your dps. It gave you back MP (which is damage currency), and could also set you up for a Swipe proc. So players incorporated that into their optimization. The main problem with this design is that it devalued Intervention. I think that if you wanted Shield Swipe to work in this way, you would need to do the following:

Sheltron: Block incoming attacks.
Additional effect: Grants Testudo.
Testudo effect: Action changes from Sheltron to Shield Swipe.

Intervention: Redirect attacks on target to yourself. Block all attacks received in this way.
Additional effect: Grants Testudo.
Testudo effect: Action changes from Intervention to Shield Swipe.

Shield Swipe: Delivers an attack with potency X. Recast 1 min. Ends Testudo.

With this setup, it doesn't matter if you're actively tanking or not, you have opportunities to set-up a counter either way. But there is an expectation that you are actively mitigating for yourself and your co-tank rather than sitting on your cooldowns.

There are two design philosophies that you can take here.
1) Mitigation actions should only be used for the sacred task of reducing incoming damage and staying alive.
2) Mitigation should be fun. It should be part of a tank's damage dealing strategy, and you should want to mitigate more damage to set up more opportunities for counterattacks.

I don't mind which of these you prefer. What I dislike is inconsistency.
'Shield Swipe is no good, mitigation abilities are there to prevent damage and nothing more. Oh, but Vengeance is okay because the damage is oh so very little.'
Right. But if it's so very little, then why is it there? Get rid of it, then. People won't miss it, apparently.

Just be consistent.