PLD needs an oGCD damage ability for their Oath Gauge

[Lyth]

Why do you need an Oath gauge, then? Just make all of your defensive actions cost MP and get rid of the Oath gauge.

It would be an equally bad deal, but without having one more superfluous bar to track.

[Garnix]

Why do you need an Oath gauge, then?

Why do you need it now though? The gauge fills by auto-attacking, so they could basically give two stacks and a CD to Sheltron and it would be almost the same thing...
The gauge is just there to be pretty...
It's really the most lackluster gauge in the whole game IMO and they should make it a bit more engaging/rewarding somehow.

I don't know, reverse logic on it maybe: change Sheltron/cover/intervention to be CDs with 2 shared stacks. Each time you use one of those skills it fills your shield oath. Use your gauge for a shield swipe. Actually, that would encourage defensive gameplay more than it does now... (kinda similar to how WHM are "forced" to heal to get their blood lily)

[Mikey_R]

Except WHM aren't forced to use their lillies at all, at best it is DPS neutral at worst it is a DPS loss, so there really isn't an incentive to use it if you don't have to.

The problem with changing all defensives to CD to build Oath to spend on damage, people will use the defensive CDs, even if they do not need to, just to get the extra damage. This could lead to cases where you don't have a cooldown required to take a hit.

This works on DRK as, in a vacuum, the MP needed to cast The Blackest Night is the same as the MP needed to use Edge/Flood of Shadow. This means, if the shield breaks, and you get the extra cast, you are DPS neutral from an MP point of view (again, in a vacuum).

[Aurida]

I miss Shield Swipe for exactly this reason, but I guess they couldn't just give it back to us wholesale and have it fit this niche because it'd need to have some kind of interaction with Intervention instead and also finding room for it on the hotbar would blow

[Garnix]

The problem with changing all defensives to CD to build Oath to spend on damage, people will use the defensive CDs, even if they do not need to, just to get the extra damage. This could lead to cases where you don't have a cooldown required to take a hit.

True, but aside from the opener, I don't think that's an issue if you have two charges of said CD though. It will be no different than the current way of "use Sheltron when you gauge gets close to 100 or when a buster is coming".
It also depends of the ratio between how much the gauge fills and how much is used for each spell of course, and it depends on the cooldown of all the skills involved too.
I just think something needs to be done for this gauge to become a bit better while still being tied to your defensive abilities, and I am looking forward to see what is coming for us.
I don't remember ever being disappointed with PLD changes (aside from the fact they kept Shield Bash instead of Shield Swipe) so I am quite optimistic with this.

[Mikey_R]

Except the part where you save it for either the Fight or Flight window or the Requiescat window, depending on if you want to make it a physical attack or a magical attack, making it, again, used as an offensive tool rather than a defensive one.

I understand, I also want the PLD gauge to be more useful rather than being a glorified cooldown period, however, tying defense and offense together doesn't really work well. The reason is works somewhat on DRK is the fact it doesn't have a cooldown buff, like Fight or Flight or No Mercy that buffs its damage for a period of time. This is also wahy I have always said 'in a vacuum' because as soon as you start taking into account the whole party and the buffs they provide, it gets messy. Trick Attack, Brotherhood, Battle Litany etc. can all make it beneficial to get the DRK to try and pop TBN to get an extra cast of EoS in the windows for more damage. With TBN being so accessible you don't even have to worry too much about being out of MP after dumping all your Mp as you will still have Rampart and Shadow Wall available if needed. The same can be said for WHM and Afflatus Misery, spend 3 lillies to be able to use Misery in the TA window or similar.

Also, I have no idea why they kept Shield Bash, It's not even on my bars, Low Blow is more than enough.

[ArianeEwah]

I, too, disagree with the OP. Defensive options should not be tied to your damage because the defensive option will be almost always on the losing end.
The best example for this is 3.x Warrior: Raw Intuition back then gave you 1/5 stacks, and 5/5 stacks were needed for Fell Cleave, so RI was used during Berserk for stack generation to squeeze in another FC. The result was that WAR either played Off-tank or just didn't use IR for mitigation, but for damage.

Should Oath Gauge stand for offensive actions only, what would it be used on? On what level should it be available?
I personally think that the current Oath gauge is kinda unique because it's used for defensive actions, instead of the generic "gather gauge for (o)GCD - single target or aoe - damage button" stuff.

On the topic of gauge accumulation: They should use the PvP iteration; your basic combo increases the gauge by 5/GCD; Holy Spirit/Circle (and later Confiteor) and Atonement by 10. To compensate the slightly slower gauge accumulation on lower levels, the duration should be 6s on default. (Lower levels are a mess anyway because every weapon as a different attack delay.) On higher levels the increased gauge generation shouldn't be an issue, as PLD doesn't have any options to restore HP unless they sacrifice a GCD.

Also, I have no idea why they kept Shield Bash, It's not even on my bars, Low Blow is more than enough.

For that juicy chain stun in Levithan Unreal vs that one add /kappa

[Dzian]

The day there is a damaging skill for gauge is the time you say bye bye to most sheltron uses because it"ll become a "dps loss".

Exact reason they deliberately never added an offensive use for the guage. which is whatthey said when they first added job guages.

It's up to the player to make use of said gauge, and other than 24 mans, you should always be using Intervention or Sheltron before gauge is full..

My main beef here is that intervention is party only. should be able to target any other player in the alliance with it. namely the tank in that other party thats MT.. at least get some use out of it..

but as long as defence remains the absolute joke it is nothing else will ever matter than dps dps dps

[Sqwall]

My opinion:

Clemency needs to be changed to Oath and no longer uses MP. This prevents Clemency cheesing, as clemency is STUPID powerful under requiescat. This would allow weaving clemency OR Sheltron during burst phase. Give me a choice. If I'm full HP then I use Sheltron...If i'm low HP then I use Clemency.

Sheltron can be used on other party members. Which would render intervention useless.

Soo....

Intervention is molded into Devine Veil as a trait. Devine Veil will now reduce damage of all party members + provide a shield when the paladin receives healing so it becomes a damage mitigation cooldown + a shield.

Other nit-picks for Paladin that bother me:

Loosen up the rotation a little!
1. Add 2-3 seconds to goring blade timer. Don't get me wrong...PLD has possibly the BEST rotation in the game for design. But it's SOOOO rigid with a huge lack of deviation. You take 1-2 seconds to long in your burst you miss Confiteor, then Goring Falls off, then you drift out of Fight or Flight sync, then your whole cooldown sync disjointed. PLD has to be PERFECT in it's rotation. Reminds me of NIN. I don't want to change PLD burst rotation at all as I think it's perfect with requiescat timer + Confiteor cast, just wish I could weave Sheltron AND clemency off of oath gauge. But the way things see to be going is charges for burst. MNK, NIN, RDM....eventually MCH, WAR will to I suspect. Just add a couple seconds to Goring Blade timer for that refresh.

2. Make Sheltron cost 25 Oath OR increase the length of Sheltron. 50 Oath for 6 seconds of 10-15% block is a steep price to pay based on the amount of time to get 50 oath. Upheaval costs a measly 20 Beast Gauge and it's STUPID powerful, AND you can weave it in your burst for a DH, and it's oGCD. I have put out 30-40k crits with upheaval!

3. Paladin needs a damage Oath Spender. Being an OT Paladin is SOOOOOO boring. Intervention is ok...but if the MT doesn't need damage reduction? Well that's it.... I jus throw it on them anyway to not cap on oath...and capping on oath isn't a DPS loss...Nine times out of ten...i'm capped on oath with a competent MT.

So I propose a oath damage dump. And something I can weave in my burst when i'm OT. Much like upheaval or Flood and Edge. Something!

[Mikey_R]

It has already been started in this thread why tying offensive and defensive skills to the same gauge is a bad idea.

Block is 19% for enemies of the same level. Taking the short cooldowns at base value, it is essentially the same as Raw Intuition. By cutting the gauge cost to 25, you make sheltron available every 11.2 seconds, that is alot of mitigation. However, what is weird is the fact you started comparing Sheltron to upheavel, where they both serve different purposes. Even the gauges serve different purposes where PLD is defensive and War is offensive.

And while I'm at it, might as well talk about Clemency. Yes, it is strong under requiescat, in that 12 second window every minute, but that is not a reliable form of healing. Even then, using Clemency out of Requiescat can mess up your rotation in a variety of ways, not to mention the DPS loss. This is a classic case of having offensive and defensive abilities use the same resource, and offense winning. By having it share gauge with sheltron, yes, there is more of a choice, however, are you better off using clemency to heal yourself, or are you better off using sheltron to mitigate damage? In group content, having the healer heal you and you mitigate the damage is going to be the better trade off.

Sticking clemency on the oath gauge, not really bothered one way or the other (but if it does get on the gauge, expect it to behave differently), however, having offensive and defensive actions use the same resource, that just does not work well.