Need help / advice for this tank roulette situation

[Miracle_Diva]

Low level content is way more difficult than 80 dungeons because of crappy kits, and it's more likely to have new players in it, so it's probably the biggest deal when it comes to this discussion. 80 dungeons, oddly enough, are where this topic is kind of irrelevant.

And again, the assessment of people in this game is a point you brought up. If you judge them all to be adequate then good for you, but I don't agree. I get that you don't like the conclusion I've drawn, but you're the one who brought this up.

Also, I'm just saying that responding to rudeness with rudeness is fair. I honestly find it hilarious that you people all go out picking fights with tanks, and then act like the tank is the jerk for fighting back. Be considerate to people and they'll be considerate in turn. Be dismissive and rude and that's how people will respond. These are the absolute basics of interacting with people.

Goji, it's all about being a better person.
I get that there're things you can't comprehend, but it's just this simple. I look at people as they are people. Worthy of being respected. They might not be "adequate" as you think, but you never know what brought them to that point. Or maybe your judgement is wrong. We are all different. We live different lives and have different experiences. Some people are simply misunderstood. One had a bad day, another is having not the best time in their life. You can't look down on anyone no matter what. Because you might be on their side one day and in the end of the day, you would still want to be treated nicely, even if you're acting like a jerk because you feel the whole world is against you.
That's why this whole "rude" competition of who can hurt each other more with this dumb attitude of "you pull it, you tank it" is kinda bad in my opinion and brings nothing good to anyone.

[Miracle_Diva]

If you want someone that isn't the tank to pull then don't expect the tank to lead.

Every game I've played bar Everquest, the tank pulled and everyone else was polite enough to let them. Everquest was different because your puller was usually a monk skilled at picking out single mobs from the group and feigning death if they failed or for the tank to grab it.

No DPS here have that kit. Pulling for the tank just because YOU don't like how fast it's going is just as rude as "you pull it, you tank it".

Usually if a healer can handle larger pulls, just saying so will speed the tank up. It's not hard to talk to people.

I never said that I defend "not a tank" pullers just in case. Sometimes it's fine to pull if you're not a tank, the other time is not. Dungeons - I don't think it's a big deal. Raids, I'd rather see a tank do it, preferably with a timer. Context matters.
And in the end - if the group doesn't like someone, they can almost always kick the disruptor.

[Goji1639]

Goji, it's all about being a better person.
I get that there're things you can't comprehend, but it's just this simple. I look at people as they are people. Worthy of being respected. They might not be "adequate" as you think, but you never know what brought them to that point. Or maybe your judgement is wrong. We are all different. We live different lives and have different experiences. Some people are simply misunderstood. One had a bad day, another is having not the best time in their life. You can't look down on anyone no matter what. Because you might be on their side one day and in the end of the day, you would still want to be treated nicely, even if you're acting like a jerk because you feel the whole world is against you.
That's why this whole "rude" competition of who can hurt each other more with this dumb attitude of "you pull it, you tank it" is kinda bad in my opinion and brings nothing good to anyone.

Right and wrong aren't really the point; I'm just informing you of what to expect if you continue being inconsiderate and dismissive of tanks just because they're not pulling fast enough for you. The fact that you can't even be bothered to talk to them before jumping to your most inconsiderate option says a lot about your mindset. Saying the tank needs to be the bigger person and just tolerate how you behave is silly.

Also, always giving peoples poor behavior the benefit of the doubt doesn't help anyone. Having a difficult life isn't a free pass to be rude to people; if someone's behavior paints them as a less than adequate person then that's how they'll be received.

[Awha]

If aggro was an issue I could see where people are coming from. Thing is aggro is not an issue, and if it is your tank is trolling and should be removed from the group. That being said even in lower level content single pulls are useless, sure wall-to-wall may be too much but in my view a single pull is never appropriate. A tank is not needed for single pulls, and any tank or healer that request single pulls is just looking to do the bare minimum required to clear the dungeon.

Also let us be fair everyone involved in this discussion is less than adequate person since we are having a debate over size of pulls in a video. Generally speaking I am willing to bet most people would think each and everyone one of us are kinda pathetic. Which I accept as canon.

[Titania40]

The claim is that it's okay for a tank to be a toxic prima donna because they are the one that ensures the group survives a fight. Hmm, how to prove that idea is a bad assumption. I know, I'll show the 3 variations of this behavior that I've witnessed over the years. I've seen these in so damn many MMOs it's not funny. Any time the unholy trinity of Tank/DPS/Healer crops up, these make their appearance.

Tank Role: Only I can pull! If you dare pull, even if it's an accident, then I wont tank to punish you!

DPS Role: Only my damage contribution matters, stop attacking! Anyone else doing DPS is wasting my time, so I'll stop attacking to punish you!

Healer Role: I am the most important person on this team, only I can keep you from dying! Wait, you dare to use self healing? You're wasting my time, so I'll stop healing to punish you!

Mind you, I have the policy as a healer of "I can't heal stupid and refuse to try." If you run off on your own, are constantly running out of my Line of Sight or out of my range, and consistently keep pulling new adds when we're struggling as it is... Then I will leave you to your fate because I'm too busy trying to keep the rest of the team alive. But hey, that applies to all roles equally. If you're consistently pulling in more aggro then I can handle as a tank, then I'll ask you to slow down. If you don't, I'll stop worrying about keeping aggro off you, cause I'm too busy trying to protect the rest of the team. And if the tank keeps pulling more mobs then he/she can handle, then I'll prioritize taking out enemies going after the healer, and leave the tank to their fate.

[FrogDog]

Just had a disagreement with a tank who stopped at the first set of enemies in Pagl while the rest of us kept running and, confused, looked back to see the tank. Tried to rescue but then she just refused to budge and the two dps ran back while I grabbed the second group and just healed myself up. It made me think of this thread, as I now sit with a 30min penalty for expecting the bare minimum from a tank at level 80.

ofc the dps sided with the tank because suggesting that somebody at level 80 be able to spam their AoE at two groups instead of one is "mean"

[RitsukoSonoda]

Just had a disagreement with a tank who stopped at the first set of enemies in Pagl while the rest of us kept running and, confused, looked back to see the tank. Tried to rescue but then she just refused to budge and the two dps ran back while I grabbed the second group and just healed myself up. It made me think of this thread, as I now sit with a 30min penalty for expecting the bare minimum from a tank at level 80.

ofc the dps sided with the tank because suggesting that somebody at level 80 be able to spam their AoE at two groups instead of one is "mean"

There are other factors. The tank could have felt under geared if they don't main tank or have been away for awhile and are trying to catch up gear wise. It's far worse when tanks are under geared for a duty and try to do big pulls just to melt 3 seconds after the the healer's MP flatlines because they had to mash all their heals and cooldowns during the pull. To me that chat log just looks like someone leaving a duty as a tantrum because they didn't get their way. Which basically means you chose to have a 30 minute penalty because you didn't want to take a few extra minutes clearing a duty. So if the complaint is about having a 30 minute penalty for abandoning the duty that would be on you alone and no one else.

[Goji1639]

Just had a disagreement with a tank who stopped at the first set of enemies in Pagl while the rest of us kept running and, confused, looked back to see the tank. Tried to rescue but then she just refused to budge and the two dps ran back while I grabbed the second group and just healed myself up. It made me think of this thread, as I now sit with a 30min penalty for expecting the bare minimum from a tank at level 80.

ofc the dps sided with the tank because suggesting that somebody at level 80 be able to spam their AoE at two groups instead of one is "mean"

This is actually a pretty good sample study for this.

I'm genuinely curious to see who this little forum community believes was being toxic in this situation.

[FrogDog]

There are other factors. The tank could have felt under geared if they don't main tank or have been away for awhile and are trying to catch up gear wise. It's far worse when tanks are under geared for a duty and try to do big pulls just to melt 3 seconds after the the healer's MP flatlines because they had to mash all their heals and cooldowns during the pull. To me that chat log just looks like someone leaving a duty as a tantrum because they didn't get their way. Which basically means you chose to have a 30 minute penalty because you didn't want to take a few extra minutes clearing a duty. So if the complaint is about having a 30 minute penalty for abandoning the duty that would be on you alone and no one else.

It's expert roulette, it's easy even at minimum ilvl. And yeah, I know I come off as brusque but I don't feel like I should have to baby somebody's comfort level over the difference of AoEing 4 enemies or 8, it's just ridiculous. Also, the tank didn't even *try* to pull more or to come take the enemies off of me, instead letting me heal myself up just so she could try to prove a point.

I took the penalty rather than support something I don't agree with, which is letting people get by without even the bare minimum of effort while they try to shame anyone who speaks up. This kind of tank is a rarity by level cap at least, but unfortunately the game doesn't allow me to just cleanly separate myself from a person like this, which is my bigger issue and point. The game puts the onus on me to either shut up to avoid getting kicked or slaps a 30min penalty on me (where I can't even do chocobo races or unsync a dungeon solo) for choosing to leave over a difference of play styles.

I think I was in a no win situation here since I spoke up about it, was called mean twice and an "ass" for doing so, I was probably going to be kicked within 5mins or at the end of the dungeon as a troll. Either way I would have lost time and gained nothing for it.

[Goji1639]

Just had a disagreement with a tank who stopped at the first set of enemies in Pagl while the rest of us kept running and, confused, looked back to see the tank. Tried to rescue but then she just refused to budge and the two dps ran back while I grabbed the second group and just healed myself up. It made me think of this thread, as I now sit with a 30min penalty for expecting the bare minimum from a tank at level 80.

ofc the dps sided with the tank because suggesting that somebody at level 80 be able to spam their AoE at two groups instead of one is "mean"

I don't want to act like this is some kind of "gotcha" moment, because you generously offered this of your own free will, but it's pretty much exactly how I assume these scenarios with "toxic" tanks and Healers on this forum go down.

Basically... "Forum healer runs ahead and pulls... Forum Healer tries to Rescue pull tank to force it... When that doesn't work Forum Healer just sits there healing himself while the rest of the group goes back to where the tank is... Tank acknowledges he's not comfortable with big pulls and asks politely that Forum Healer doesn't do that... Rest of the group agrees to let the tank keep a pace he's comfortable with... Forum healer whines and insults the group like a simp before bailing... Forum healer runs to the forums for affirmations from other Forum Healers who behave the same way as him in groups."

Thank you for this.