I really hope than Fandaniel and Zenos are not... (spoilers)

[TroySoFab]

Well they won't be FFXIV's final antagonists because the game will continue after endwalker, however iirc endwalker will be the end of this story line. So the expansion after endwalker should have a different set of villains. Also I highly suspect that the final boss will be some mythical god thing that we haven't even seen yet because final fantasy.

[SpanishInkwehsitor]

I think the only FF that have done that was....1 with chaos and I think chaos was just a hidden final boss and 13-1 sorta did it as well.
Either way if you're saying that you probably haven't played many FF because almost all mainline FF stick to the final boss we know that's the final boss or we at least heard of.

FF9 had a hidden "Real Final Boss" with Necron, which is a guy no one mentioned or knew existed till he dropped in and said "sup, monkey nuked the crystal so I'm here to kill everything".

Are you talking about Dissidia? Chaos wasn't exactly hidden.

[SpanishInkwehsitor]

Oh right forgot about ff9 and I think you mean necron lmao. Necrozma is a pokemon.
I might have gotten confused with something else actually some reason I kept thinking it was ff1.

Granted it's also a portmanteau of Necron and Ozma, too.

[AngelCheese77]

I just wish Zenos stayed dead. I find him thoroughly annoying AF

Emet Selch was a good antagonist. Heck even Emperor Varis was as well.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I just wish Zenos stayed dead. I find him thoroughly annoying AF

Emet Selch was a good antagonist. Heck even Emperor Varis was as well.

The fact that Zenos killed Varis, a character with so much more potential and history behind him is a travesty and a writing decision i’ll never agree with.

[Wavaryen]

I still get chills the look of horror when Varis looks up and says you would kill me just for that? Zenos is just so much fun, and I don't think any other bad guy we get will come close to the levels of just pure fun that Zenos brings. Heck even the Ascians are some tragic story, blah blah...


But Zenos just wants that pleasure, wants to hunt. Does not care if he wins or loses at all. Life? Has no meaning without fun. Love? I think he is in love with the warrior of light in his own twisted way, everything he wants everything he does and breaths is to bring pure misery on to them, and that misery will make you stronger and strike him down.


I could see Zenos winning and being very upset that he does. That is just how twisted he is. We NEED a bad guy that makes you feel like he could do anything, just for his selfish reasons.


I hope that he sees y'shtola and just finishes the job off. Just so that it would scar warrior of light so deeply. It was a real shame that he has not killed anyone really close to the warrior of light. I really hope he finishes the job he started with y'shtola, that would be the icing on the cake. Worth being the greatest bad guy of this game to date.

[Bright-Flower]

The fact that Zenos killed Varis, a character with so much more potential and history behind him is a travesty and a writing decision i’ll never agree with.

Varis had so much potential in the first half of the meeting at the tail end of SB's patches. Shame he went off the deep end in the second half and then was killed off by Zenos.

I don't necessarily hate selfish, chaotic villains. But Zenos doesn't do it for me. I can get behind a shallow but fun villain like Kefka or the Emperor from Star Wars. Even Fandaniel's starting to grow on me in that regard. But Zenos just bores me. It doesn't help that he feels like a villain sue who just one shots everything in his path and never has to actually struggle, scheme or work toward everything. In his partnership with Fandaniel it feels like Fandaniel's doing most of the actual work and Zenos is just along for the ride. They missed a golden opportunity to actually put Zenos under pressure having to use inferior bodies to reclaim his own but he never has any trouble or struggle to overcome. Even making Elidibus flee his body and warp off to the void without a real fight.

Zenos is one of those villains that's invincible until the story says it's time for the hero to defeat them and that's just not satisfying for me, at all. Kefka for example had to spend the first half of the game using underhanded tricks, running away when things got too hot, and scheming/betraying his way into power when the time was right. He didn't just show up into the story with the power to toss the main characters around.

I just find nothing there to engage with. He doesn't need to be sympathetic but I need SOMETHING and right now he just isn't offering anything for me.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Varis had so much potential in the first half of the meeting at the tail end of SB's patches. Shame he went off the deep end in the second half and then was killed off by Zenos.

I don't necessarily hate selfish, chaotic villains. But Zenos doesn't do it for me. I can get behind a shallow but fun villain like Kefka or the Emperor from Star Wars. Even Fandaniel's starting to grow on me in that regard. But Zenos just bores me. It doesn't help that he feels like a villain sue who just one shots everything in his path and never has to actually struggle, scheme or work toward everything. In his partnership with Fandaniel it feels like Fandaniel's doing most of the actual work and Zenos is just along for the ride. They missed a golden opportunity to actually put Zenos under pressure having to use inferior bodies to reclaim his own but he never has any trouble or struggle to overcome. Even making Elidibus flee his body and warp off to the void without a real fight.

Zenos is one of those villains that's invincible until the story says it's time for the hero to defeat them and that's just not satisfying for me, at all. Kefka for example had to spend the first half of the game using underhanded tricks, running away when things got too hot, and scheming/betraying his way into power when the time was right. He didn't just show up into the story with the power to toss the main characters around.

I just find nothing there to engage with. He doesn't need to be sympathetic but I need SOMETHING and right now he just isn't offering anything for me.

Honestly i absolutely loved the meeting scene and seeing how he demolished the alliance. It was nice to finally see them taken down a peg. The biggest pet peeve of mine at that meeting was they gave us no option to mention Regula, Varis’ literal best friend. I think the writers just stopped caring at that point.

[ReynTime]

For Zenos to be a successful 'pure evil' character he would need to inflict some serious lasting harm and trauma upon the protagonists. He has failed to do so and repeatedly walks away whenever granted the opportunity to do as much. So he simply falls flat as a character and seems to be have been created purely as an excuse to dismantle Garlemald without forcing the Scions or Warrior of Light to deal with the fact that an attempt to invade the place would displace and slaughter a great many innocent people.

I don't consider evil characters who only ever kill antagonists to be particularly compelling. Sephiroth was as much as a threat and thorn in the side to Shinra as he was to Cloud and his companions. Especially given what he does to a certain character...

Zenos has simply fallen flat for me. I had high hopes given the promise of an unapologetic villain but at this point I'm expecting him to do a heel face turn and side with the Warrior of Light for no other reason than 'rule of cool'. I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen - and it'll suck, given that the game has persistently refused to allow us to side with antagonists that had common ground and would realistically be open to reason and long term alliances had they not been conveniently slain/had their hands tied. Namely the likes of Regula and Varis.

Every single AAA project SE puts out is written mandated by the 'rule of cool' though. I guess the earlier years of 2.0+ XIV made people hopeful it wouldn't be the case for it.
I also fully believe they didn't have 5.2+ properly planned as early as they like to brag and killing all antagonists that had grounds on 1.0~3.0+ too early was a massive mistake they're trying to compensate with pulling stuff like a surprise crazy ascian out of their rear and rehashing Zenos.

Ishikawa isn't looking like that good of a writer since 5.1 and I'll be extremely surprised if she somehow turns it around with Endwalker.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Every single AAA project SE puts out is written mandated by the 'rule of cool' though. I guess the earlier years of 2.0+ XIV made people hopeful it wouldn't be the case for it.
I also fully believe they didn't have 5.2+ properly planned as early as they like to brag and killing all antagonists that had grounds on 1.0~3.0+ too early was a massive mistake they're trying to compensate with pulling stuff like a surprise crazy ascian out of their rear and rehashing Zenos.

Ishikawa isn't looking like that good of a writer since 5.1 and I'll be extremely surprised if she somehow turns it around with Endwalker.

Finally someone said it. 5.2 and 5.3 just felt so terrible rushed and it was one of the few times it’s very noticeable. The main sign i saw was when they built up the whole thing of the crystarium people becoming WoL’s(which made elidibus’ plan seemingly be that they’d start another flood of light) which honestly would’ve been such a good plot. How are the scions gonna prevent people from doing good? But then….that entire plot thread is dropped in a single one off comment in 5.3 of “oh they decided not to.” Really? Elidibus barely having much screentime in the other expansions despite being the primary ascian, and then only getting literally 2 patches was another big sign. What’s interesting to me is according to Yoshi, Eden was supposed to be the final boss of ShB, which makes me wonder what they had planned for Emet and Elidibus. But yeah it seems like they just kill off characters that they don’t know how to write. First Regula, Then Varis and then Elidibus. All 3 had potential but they were cast aside and instead we get zenos who somehow has more screentime than the main ascian who’s been around since 2.0…I have very low hopes for Ishikawa in charge of 6.0. She seems to only be able to write sob stories and sympathetic character arcs, and the one character whom she didnt do that with(Zenos) is one of the blandest. Her writing just feels very same-y, with the amaurot instance in 5.3 just feleing like Drk 2.0.