I really hope than Fandaniel and Zenos are not... (spoilers)

[Wavaryen]

Snip

Well I guess you can keep being wrong. No need to be sorry I will just keep looking at history, and the world today to see how human nature really is. And evil is perspective thing. The people with money and power can shape history, and always have and will. The winners get to decide who is right. Even in todays standards. Might equals right on a world stage. But that is a whole other topic.

Nothing you really said counters my point. Zonos wants a rematch. You act like that is not a big deal? He is a hunter, He wants the world to burn because it will bring out the best in you to defend it. He rather KILL himself than be bored again. He wants you back into a corner. He does not just want to fight, he wants the perfect stage. The settings. The FEELING.



He is amazing. In fact he is my top three best people in the game. His pure emotions, pure driven. I love everything about him, how he is alive now, just to feel that one moment. How selfish he was to kill himself instead of being locked away bored out of his mind. He rather just end it all right on the spot, and being given a second chance. How could he not set the stage? The world ending, just him and the hero of light facing off on the final stage, him taking everyone else out with him in a blaze of glory.


Man I got shivers just thinking about it. What a guy.

[TeraRamis]

Well I guess you can keep being wrong. No need to be sorry I will just keep looking at history, and the world today to see how human nature really is.

Uh huh. Give me one - even one - example of a person from history who has been pure evil. Not 'evil' in an aggregate sense - pure evil. You cannot do it. Any answer you provide will be false.

Nothing you really said counters my point. Zonos wants a rematch. You act like that is not a big deal? He is a hunter, He wants the world to burn because it will bring out the best in you to defend it. He rather KILL himself than be bored again. He wants you back into a corner. He does not just want to fight, he wants the perfect stage. The settings. The FEELING.

Zenos has no plan, and no ambition. His singular goal is to fight us. He could find us with ease - Fandaniel just flew right up to us. Moreover, what if Zenos wins? What's his scheme then? What is he after? There's no adequate answer to any of these questions, because Zenos is perhaps the most transparent and boring character in the history of Final Fantasy; if the writers have even considered these questions, they haven't seen fit to inject their solutions into the character himself. Because he's just a hollow vessel at this point. There's nothing to him but piss and wind.

He is amazing. Man I got shivers just thinking about it. What a guy.

Ouch. Well, I didn't need more insight into the way you ticked, but this is telling all the same.

[TheMightyMollusk]

First you'll have to define "pure evil", because it's pretty vague.

[TeraRamis]

First you'll have to define "pure evil", because it's pretty vague.

No, it really isn't. A 'pure evil' person would never miss any opportunity - period - to commit an evil act, because he or she would be incapable of doing good. They'd do everything from slam car doors on people's hands, to flambéing all the neighborhood pets, to stabbing their own mother with a fork. Nothing - nothing - would be safe, immune, or held sacred. Every single chance to do wrong would be exercised.

Nobody has ever been wired that way - nobody. No person could function like that.

[Wavaryen]

Uh huh. Give me one - even one - example of a person from history who has been pure evil. Not 'evil' in an aggregate sense - pure evil. You cannot do it. Any answer you provide will be false.

Like I said it is a perspective thing, but I will give you an example of what I think is the evil of human nature. I don't even need to go into the past.


We can end world hunger, but we don't in the name of profits.
We willing turn a blind eye to unfair laws, or wars just so we can live an easier life.
We use social media to cry about things being unfair for others, but when the time comes for actions. The posts are just to "feel good".
We still to this day have slavery in many parts of the world and america as well. yet we ignore it.


I mean I could make a HUGE list of the things I consider evil. Making excuses like it can't be helped, or that is just how it is. Well that is a mask we wear to make ourselves feel better. Humans always run each other over. For every good thing we do, the evils we allow is ten times worse in my eyes.



That is why I like this guy. He does not hide behind anything. He does not make excuses. You stand in his way, you die. He will do anything, no matter how twisted it is, just to feel that moment. Heck even calling his family a coward for almost killing you with that rose.

[TheMightyMollusk]

No, it really isn't. A 'pure evil' person would never miss any opportunity - period - to commit an evil act, because he or she would be incapable of doing good. They'd do everything from slam car doors on people's hands, to flambéing all the neighborhood pets, to stabbing their own mother with a fork. Nothing - nothing - would be safe, immune, or held sacred. Every single chance to do wrong would be exercised.

Nobody has ever been wired that way - nobody. No person could function like that.

That's not "pure" evil. That's "stupid" evil.

[TeraRamis]

Like I said it is a perspective thing, but I will give you an example of what I think is the evil of human nature. I don't even need to go into the past.


We can end world hunger, but we don't in the name of profits.
We willing turn a blind eye to unfair laws, or wars just so we can live an easier life.
We use social media to cry about things being unfair for others, but when the time comes for actions. The posts are just to "feel good".
We still to this day have slavery in many parts of the world and america as well. yet we ignore it.


I mean I could make a HUGE list of the things I consider evil. Making excuses like it can't be helped, or that is just how it is. Well that is a mask we wear to make ourselves feel better. Humans always run each other over. For every good thing we do, the evils we allow is ten times worse in my eyes.



That is why I like this guy. He does not hide behind anything. He does not make excuses. You stand in his way, you die. He will do anything, no matter how twisted it is, just to feel that moment. Heck even calling his family a coward for almost killing you with that rose.

Lol, you're offering me nothing but platitudes when I'm asking for specifics. I want an individual who is pure evil - that's all; not the 'subtle evils of humanity as a collective.' You need to give me a person who is as evil and bereft of soul as Zenos is - a person who is so malignant and simultaneously useless that their entire purpose in being is only to spread ruin. And, so far - starving people in undeveloped countries, and our oh-so-evil choice not to weep for them ceaselessly - you have been unable to do that.

[TeraRamis]

That's not "pure" evil. That's "stupid" evil.

Nope, that's pure evil. Because anything less than that isn't pure evil. I never said that pure evil was smart - of course it isn't. But that's the bar we're measuring our dear boy Zenos by: his stupid obsession with doing nothing but evil for no reason.

[Wavaryen]

Lol, you're offering me nothing but platitudes when I'm asking for specifics. I want an individual who is pure evil - that's all; not the 'subtle evils of humanity as a collective.' You need to give me a person who is as evil and bereft of soul as Zenos is - a person who is so malignant and simultaneously useless that their entire purpose in being is only to spread ruin. And, so far - starving people in undeveloped countries, and our oh-so-evil choice not to weep for them ceaselessly - you have been unable to do that.

Your question is silly, Because I can name a ton of people I feel are pure evil from my pov.

Hilter.
Genghis Khan
George Washington
Nero
Josef Mengele


Like, I gave you examples of human nature that I consider evil that counter your pov. You wanted people so here I gave you a list of people I find true evil.

[Theodric]

For Zenos to be a successful 'pure evil' character he would need to inflict some serious lasting harm and trauma upon the protagonists. He has failed to do so and repeatedly walks away whenever granted the opportunity to do as much. So he simply falls flat as a character and seems to be have been created purely as an excuse to dismantle Garlemald without forcing the Scions or Warrior of Light to deal with the fact that an attempt to invade the place would displace and slaughter a great many innocent people.

I don't consider evil characters who only ever kill antagonists to be particularly compelling. Sephiroth was as much as a threat and thorn in the side to Shinra as he was to Cloud and his companions. Especially given what he does to a certain character...

Zenos has simply fallen flat for me. I had high hopes given the promise of an unapologetic villain but at this point I'm expecting him to do a heel face turn and side with the Warrior of Light for no other reason than 'rule of cool'. I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen - and it'll suck, given that the game has persistently refused to allow us to side with antagonists that had common ground and would realistically be open to reason and long term alliances had they not been conveniently slain/had their hands tied. Namely the likes of Regula and Varis.