This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Nyarlha]

If someone is dead for the majority of content, that means the healer didn't rez them for the majority of content. Deliberate on your part? (Asked since your identity here is WHM).

You can only raise someone so many times before it starts being an issue. If some dude is dying a bunch of time on each boss, you might as well use your mana to DPS.

[Ronduwil]

Question remains why should a person that tanked the floor be eligible for reward simply for existing? What positive "vibe" is worth rewarding someone doing nothing?

I completely disagree with this for two reasons:

1. In most cases, they haven't "done nothing." They tried something, and they didn't succeed as well as they would have liked. We don't know why they didn't succeed. Maybe they're new to the fight, or maybe they haven't done the fight in a long time. The alternative is for everyone to stop DPS while the player gets raised or to wipe the fight and start over so you can try again with that person playing to their full potential. No one wants to do that in the roulette.

2. You're acting as if rewarding that person is somehow taking away something from more deserving people. It's not. This is a video game. The rewards are created digitally with no additional resources required. It's not like a real life job where the company has limited resources to dole out and an underperformer is simply leeching resources that could have gone to more deserving employees.

I mean generally I am not one for participation rewards.

Then why are you wasting your time playing video games? The whole point of a video game is a participation reward. It's not like you're actually saving the world or honing your fencing skills while hacking away at virtual bad guys.

[ZedxKayn]

If someone is dead for the majority of content, that means the healer didn't rez them for the majority of content. Deliberate on your part? (Asked since your identity here is WHM).

It doesn't inherently mean that. But if we're gonna bring up forum jobs, I'm really not surprised that's a remark coming from a phys range dps.

[Awha]

I completely disagree with this for two reasons:

1. In most cases, they haven't "done nothing." They tried something, and they didn't succeed as well as they would have liked. We don't know why they didn't succeed. Maybe they're new to the fight, or maybe they haven't done the fight in a long time. The alternative is for everyone to stop DPS while the player gets raised or to wipe the fight and start over so you can try again with that person playing to their full potential. No one wants to do that in the roulette.

2. You're acting as if rewarding that person is somehow taking away something from more deserving people. It's not. This is a video game. The rewards are created digitally with no additional resources required. It's not like a real life job where the company has limited resources to dole out and an underperformer is simply leeching resources that could have gone to more deserving employees.



Then why are you wasting your time playing video games? The whole point of a video game is a participation reward. It's not like you're actually saving the world or honing your fencing skills while hacking away at virtual bad guys.

For your first point I see the issue, for me trying and failing is still failing amounts to an 0 in terms of tangible rewards. Sure it is a learning experience but until I complete the task or the goal I do not expect to be rewarded just for trying. I have seen people in roulette wipe a group to remove the floor tank, and in our static if a person is dead for the clear on farm runs unless it is prog they do not get to roll on said loot.

As for your second point you are right they are just digital items so why does it matter if someone who has done nothing does not get a chance to roll on the reward or gets a reward?

Video games are like any hobby so your last question seems extremely disingenuous. That said I will never understand why people willfully want to half ass a hobby they apparently enjoy.

[DPZ2]

It doesn't inherently mean that. But if we're gonna bring up forum jobs, I'm really not surprised that's a remark coming from a phys range dps.

So, you'd deliberately leave someone dead throughout an encounter and then complain about it?

[For reference, I only play a Bard on the Forums because it was my first job to level 50 back in ARR.]

[Rinhi]

if someone is dead the majority of the time in casual content, despite being rezzed enough times for the healer to decide that rezzing them is not viable anymore, that usually means the player in question is not even trying to stay alive and would rather watch others do the fight than try and play properly
but I'm you'll make this about how that mean healer is being a bully to sprouts who are trying to learn the game, or how that player could have a disability or whatever convenient excuse that comes to your mind and how it can't be a player dying on purpose to grief or to be afk and still get all the benefits, so I'm not sure why I bother posting this

[ForteNightshade]

this still going on?

wow... here is the title of a vid to watch by Josh Strife Hayes: Casual VS Hardcore MMO Players

I found it interesting, and does point out what kind of hardcore player some in here are wanting to be. enjoy ^^

It really doesn't though. His definition of casual is still someone who interacts with what the game presents yet doesn't go beyond that. "A casual player isn't an idiot." Few in this thread have argued otherwise nor suggested a casual player by in large is inherently bad for being casual. We're discussing the players who cannot be bothered to learn even the basics of their job but still want to reap all the benefits. Using DR as our example. Why should players too lazy to farm Essences be rewarded to the same degree players who do are? Better even, why should the content allow someone to literally press 1-2-3 endlessly and be equally rewarded as someone using their full toolkit? These examples aren't of casual players but people who just don't care.

[Awha]

It really doesn't though. His definition of casual is still someone who interacts with what the game presents yet doesn't go beyond that. "A casual player isn't an idiot." Few in this thread have argued otherwise nor suggested a casual player by in large is inherently bad for being casual. We're discussing the players who cannot be bothered to learn even the basics of their job but still want to reap all the benefits. Using DR as our example. Why should players too lazy to farm Essences be rewarded to the same degree players who do are? Better even, why should the content allow someone to literally press 1-2-3 endlessly and be equally rewarded as someone using their full toolkit? These examples aren't of casual players but people who just don't care.

More likely they will just say cause they are part of the team tho or, how about those with disabilities tho or, it is a video game why does it matter tho or, any slippery slop argument tho.

[Vocal_Night]

People here really need to stop fixating on problems, trying to find ways to criticize ideas and instead should try to find alternate ways to solve problems.

Consider this, Instead of punishing the bottom 20 based on a random metric, which seems to be what everyone seems to be against, let's make it simpler:

Rewards stay the same for everybody. If you are new, a sprout, a free rider, or a "new person on your fifth time or whatever" doing this content, the rewards will be the same for everybody.

But, BUT! If you are a player that go above and beyond you get extra stuff like someone here already said. Maybe 2mil extra mettle, maybe extra platinum coins, maybe extra exp, maybe a higher personal chance to drop the hair or the mount (Say the normal chance is 2%, but you personally get 5% for doing better). No fanfare, no big letters on the screen, just a simple message in your chat that you get extra X for a job well done.

Maybe in expert roullete if you distinguish yourself you get extra tomestones by the end of the run, that would just mean that the average joe would continue finishing capping their tomestones for the week after 5 days like normal, but a person that is more competent finishes in 3 days. That goes hand in hand with what Yoshi says about not wanting to force players to log in everyday. Play competently, finish stuff for the week faster and get more free time from the game.

How the developers would calculate this threeshold, i don't know man, they have the numbers and logs from pretty much dozen of runs of DR and roulettes done every week. Just pick the average damage that each class does and set that the bar for each class individually, anything above the average get's the bonus, it really isn't that hard. No WOW bullshit of timed clears, where faster is better or something like that, just do more damage than the average of your class in that content, simple, easy.

Again. For everyone else, no matter if you are a free rider, sprout, whatever, everything would be the same. People that go above and beyond get a little bonus.

Just a slight edit to make this point even more clearer:

The status qo right now is that everyone, no matter what they did, get's a cookie at the end of the instance.
All i'm saying is that people that did better get not even an extra cookie, but at least an extra half of a cookie.

I don't see how this would be a problem for anyone, but these are the forums.

[Krotoan]

This thread : "But disabled players!"

Meanwhile, disabled players : https://twitter.com/MeowMeowingman/s...12856290086917

Oh yes.. look.. this guy managed so ANY argument about disabilities is moot.. right?

How the developers would calculate this threeshold, i don't know man, they have the numbers and logs from pretty much dozen of runs of DR and roulettes done every week. Just pick the average damage that each class does and set that the bar for each class individually, anything above the average get's the bonus, it really isn't that hard. No WOW bullshit of timed clears, where faster is better or something like that, just do more damage than the average of your class in that content, simple, easy.

This is the fiddly bit though eh?

Find a way to do this without encouraging people to yell at others for their performance affecting their own. Average damage? "OMG pull more I need the numbers", average "effective" heals? "just stand in the AOE's I need valid heals, don't use ANY healing cooldowns". Once you start making "goals" aside from "finish the content" people will do everything and anything to make sure they hit those goals and hit them as fast as possible.