Tanks Pulling Trains (Who's Wrong?)

[blue_skies]

Today is the first time I've been yelled at for not keeping a tank alive in his massive trains (Dohn Mheg).

The DPS lectured me that I should be spamming Holy instead of heals, and the tank accordingly blamed me for his deaths because of it. I know that wasn't it because the tank died in 2 globals and the packs lived far beyond 3 casts (diminishing returns).

So we either wiped because:
a) Cure II spam wasn't enough to keep the tank alive (and I mean literally button smashing)
b) I ran OOM before the packs died because (a)

Am I at fault here, or is this guy just not using cooldowns / pulling too much?

[ninninin]

Cure II is your last resort. If you know you're going to need to spam Cure II then might as well regen+medica II before start spamming it.

Push come to shove WHM have benediction and before that you still have Asylum,Afflatus,Assize,Regen.

And it hard to judge because

I don't know if you Swift Cast+Holy or not? Did you sit on presence of mind at all? Are you using Lucid Dreaming at the appropriate moment?

Did you use all you have? do you prioritize your healing action correctly?

Was the tank undergeared? Did he move out of aoe or just stand there and eat it? Did he use a proper cooldown mitigation?

[blue_skies]

Wouldn't it imply that the tank pulled too much if his gear was insufficient to handle it? And yes, I used Lucid Dreaming (and Thin Air).

To elaborate:
1. Regen at/before mobs arrive. I had to drop Asylum too because a DPS kept standing in telegraphs.
2. Lilly + Tetr weave
3. Benison on CD
4. Assize on CD
5. Lucid Dreaming when I start Cure II
6. Thin Air when LD drops
7. Swift -> Holy while not on DR
8. Benediction as oh-sh!@ button

For context, if I started casting Holy when he was at 100%, he would have been dead by the time the stun would have went off. I don't know what amount of healing I can sustain if a tank is losing 50% of their HP per round for 3-4 minutes.

Edit: For clarification, I'm 73... so no Afflatus. I didn't start using Cure II until the aforementioned oGCD heals were on CD.

[ninninin]

How many packs did he pull?

[Jaelommiss]

There's nowhere near enough information to judge with certainty. Do you have video or logs of the pull? The truth is most likely a combination of poor tanking and poor healing practices. The fact you needed to be told to use Holy and were spamming Cure II are massive indicators that you do not have a firm grasp on how to play WHM and makes me think it was most likely your fault more than the tank's.

A brief look at your lodestone page shows that you're wearing several i385 pieces. Not using full augmented Scaevan at level 73 definitely makes it harder to heal.

I assume you're asking for judgement because you legitimately wish to know whether you made a mistake and how to fix it. The game does a terrible job teaching new players how to make the most of their toolkits and it's very common for new healers to make big mistakes for multiple levels. Until a new healer is paired with a bad tank it's very difficult to wipe in this game so it's easy to believe that they're not doing anything wrong.

I would be happy to tank a couple dungeons for you and provide feedback. If you're interested you can reach me on Discord at Qina#4625.

[blue_skies]

Cure II is your last resort. If you know you're going to need to spam Cure II then might as well regen+medica II before start spamming it.

Push come to shove WHM have benediction and before that you still have Asylum,Afflatus,Assize,Regen.

And it hard to judge because

I don't know if you Swift Cast+Holy or not? Did you sit on presence of mind at all? Are you using Lucid Dreaming at the appropriate moment?

Did you use all you have? do you prioritize your healing action correctly?

Was the tank undergeared? Did he move out of aoe or just stand there and eat it? Did he use a proper cooldown mitigation?

I'm not sure if he was undergeared. I was 385 so I don't know if that's above/below recommended for Dohn Mheg. I wasn't able to re-apply Regen without him dying by the time the following heal would have landed.

I know he popped Rampart and Hallowed Ground. Honestly wish he didn't pop Hallowed Ground because it just made the next damage wave less predictable.

[Kabooa]

This sounds like the tank wasn't properly utilizing cooldowns. While the Wall pulls in Dohn Mheg can hurt, there are a few mitigating factors the tank can apply to give a large amount of breathing room, outside of just pushing the CDs. Getting whomped for 50% sounds like basically nothing was up, but it is, potentially, due to them waiting for you to Holy first for the 7ish seconds, but at the bare minimum, that's the 20s CD to use to keep the damage stabilized.

Unfortunately, without knowing what the tank did, or how well the DPS were performing, this is kind of hard to make any judgment on.

Your own approach seems fine, but my recommendation would be to Benison while they pull, regen + an OGCD when they come to a stop, swift + holy earlier rather than later. I personally would also regen on the pull, but that comes with risks.

[ninninin]

I'm not sure if he was undergeared. I was 385 so I don't know if that's above/below recommended for Dohn Mheg. I wasn't able to re-apply Regen without him dying by the time the following heal would have landed.

I know he popped Rampart and Hallowed Ground. Honestly wish he didn't pop Hallowed Ground because it just made the next damage wave less predictable.

Swift+Holy is best to be earlier when tank stop running and start to kill the pack. Because it can stun the pack for 4s and during that time you have a breathing room which you could regen/medica II or both depend on the size of the pack and the remaining hp of the tank. And then if you use presence of mind it would help greatly when you're about to spam holy of cure II next.

It would be a great help if you could tell us how many pack did the tank pull? and how much hp he have left when he stop running and start kill the pack?

[blue_skies]

There's nowhere near enough information to judge with certainty. Do you have video or logs of the pull? The truth is most likely a combination of poor tanking and poor healing practices. The fact you needed to be told to use Holy and were spamming Cure II are massive indicators that you do not have a firm grasp on how to play WHM and makes me think it was most likely your fault more than the tank's.

A brief look at your lodestone page shows that you're wearing several i385 pieces. Not using full augmented Scaevan at level 73 definitely makes it harder to heal.

I would be happy to tank a couple dungeons for you and provide feedback. If you're interested you can reach me on Discord at Qina#4625.

I appreciate the help, I do want to clarify a couple points:

1. I know how Holy works. He was telling me to use Holy instead of heals. He thought you could endlessly spam a 4 second AOE stun for eternity. He said afterward, "oh I didn't know Holy had a DR".
2. I didn't just blindly mash Cure II. I'm just trying to convey the estimated healing output needed to keep him above 0%.

I responded above with the general approach I've been using. This is the first time I've had a tank die during a train pull, so I'm trying to figure out what went wrong.

I have the normal FFXIV log files, I don't have ACT installed.

[blue_skies]

Swift+Holy is best to be earlier when tank stop running and start to kill the pack. Because it can stun the pack for 4s and during that time you have a breathing room which you could regen/medica II or both depend on the size of the pack and the remaining hp of the tank. And then if you use presence of mind it would help greatly when you're about to spam holy of cure II next.

It would be a great help if you could tell us how many pack did the tank pull? and how much hp he have left when he stop running and start kill the pack?

I'm going to run it again and ask the tank to do a same pulls. I'll try and provide more info.