Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[Lastelli]

Doesn't have to make sense. If that's what the developers want, that's what the developers get. You don't have to like it. It isn't removing choice either. You chose to pick up that game and in doing so chose to accept what was offered.

Sure, the devs can do whatever they want. Doesn't change the fact that what they choose to do might be bad or illogical. Looking at M Viera for instance, how is it possible that in two separate dimensions we can't see any, despite the fact that one dimension is on the brink of annihilation and that led most other races and beast tribes to join hands? Where did all the F Hroths go? How is it believable that we have to accept weird motivations as to why those genders are nowhere to be seen in two different "worlds" with different social structures? The only logical explanation is "the devs didn't have the time/resources to add them at the time". The only way a one-gender race can be accepted is if it's androgynous in biological terms, and I would be completely fine with that to be honest. Anything else is bad design/development choice with a sprinkle of resource limitation and a splash of pandering to a particular target.

After all, every time they add a new race/job the lore gets crushed a little bit. Yugiri hiding her body didn't make any sense after Au Ras where added. The existence of many people playing the same job doesn't make sense as well since in many cases said jobs are unique or extremely rare if we consider their lore. So at the end of the day, lore isn't really an explanation to design limitation, especially in a game where we're the one exception, the chosen one blah blah blah.

[Joven]

Sure, the devs can do whatever they want. Doesn't change the fact that what they choose to do might be bad or illogical. Looking at M Viera for instance, how is it possible that in two separate dimensions we can't see any, despite the fact that one dimension is on the brink of annihilation and that led most other races and beast tribes to join hands? Where did all the F Hroths go? How is it believable that we have to accept weird motivations as to why those genders are nowhere to be seen in two different "worlds" with different social structures? The only logical explanation is "the devs didn't have the time/resources to add them at the time". The only way a one-gender race can be accepted is if it's androgynous in biological terms, and I would be completely fine with that to be honest. Anything else is bad design/development choice with a sprinkle of resource limitation and a splash of pandering to a particular target.

After all, every time they add a new race/job the lore gets crushed a little bit. Yugiri hiding her body didn't make any sense after Au Ras where added. The existence of many people playing the same job doesn't make sense as well since in many cases said jobs are unique or extremely rare if we consider their lore. So at the end of the day, lore isn't really an explanation to design limitation, especially in a game where we're the one exception, the chosen one blah blah blah.

Considering The First =/= The Source then it doesn't matter if femgars are there or not. Or male viera for that matter. As for the job thing: the only one you'd have a point with is WHM since that's supposed to be exclusive to padjals and you're the exception. Every other job is pretty much a dime a dozen. There is no limit to the number of people that can attain the jobs in question, they just have a high skill ceiling to reach.

And no, again, it's not bad design/developement just because you don't agree with it.

[Lastelli]

Considering The First =/= The Source then it doesn't matter if femgars are there or not. Or male viera for that matter. As for the job thing: the only one you'd have a point with is WHM since that's supposed to be exclusive to padjals and you're the exception. Every other job is pretty much a dime a dozen. There is no limit to the number of people that can attain the jobs in question, they just have a high skill ceiling to reach.

And no, again, it's not bad design/developement just because you don't agree with it.

WHM is unique, but many other jobs are supposed to be very rare or exotic...even the job quests make you feel somewhat special and one of a kind because you're now practicing this forgotten art or whatever. Maybe some jobs are as rare as M Vieras, who knows? So again, it doesn't make much sense and people using lore as an explanation are using double standards. I will always think that having no M Viera and F Hroths doesn't make any sense, sorry, it's simply unbelievable given the circumstances of the world and the exceptionality of our character. Unless they decide that they were all exterminated somehow, but even that would be quite unbelievable.
By the way I would even be fine with unplayable races. Just let me see them...of course at that point why not go the extra mile and just add them as a playable race? Doesn't make business sense at that point.

Ultimately, the fact that they decided to add them after all proves that lore wasn't a strong enough justification. They bended the lore before and they'll do it again.

[Joven]

WHM is unique, but many other jobs are supposed to be very rare or exotic...even the job quests make you feel somewhat special and one of a kind because you're now practicing this forgotten art or whatever. Maybe some jobs are as rare as M Vieras, who knows? So again, it doesn't make much sense and people using lore as an explanation are using double standards. I will always think that having no M Viera and F Hroths doesn't make any sense, sorry, it's simply unbelievable given the circumstances of the world and the exceptionality of our character. Unless they decide that they were all exterminated somehow, but even that would be quite unbelievable.
By the way I would even be fine with unplayable races. Just let me see them...of course at that point why not go the extra mile and just add them as a playable race? Doesn't make business sense at that point.

Ultimately, the fact that they decided to add them after all proves that lore wasn't a strong enough justification. They bended the lore before and they'll do it again.

Think about standard party configuration for the story dungeons: 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS. In those situations you *would* be the only one of your job. DPS being the exception since there are two of those, but all the DPS jobs are open for anyone to learn. Any of the EX primals or raids where there are multiples of each job aren't exactly 'canon' and even if they were the jobs are rare/unique, not nonexistant so it could be plausible to run into another one at some point.

As far as the races: like they did with Au Ra, we just never encountered them before Stormblood when we learn of Doma. The femgars could be the same way, we're in Bozja, maybe they're in hiding until the fighting dies down. There are ways to introduce these things.

[Lastelli]

As far as the races: like they did with Au Ra, we just never encountered them before Stormblood. The femgars could be the same way, we're in Bozja, maybe they're in hiding until the fighting dies down. There are ways to introduce these things.

I'm not disputing the fact that they might choose different approaches to introduce new things. What I'm saying is that it's not very believable and it's acceptable only if you consider things like resource limitations and development time. Is it believable that F Hroths are hiding? Maybe it is to you, but to me it really isn't. We see a lot of female fighters in the bozjan resistance, so unless F Hroths are like smol, cute, defenseless puppies and I pray to god they're not, it will be quite weird to suddenly see them when they come out and in that case it wouldn't make much sense that we can later use them with our combat jobs. Am I mad because of it? Absolutely not, as I said I understand that they have to make choices. But please don't give me that lore nonsense as a viable explanation to limiting gamaplay features or questionable design choices. It's not like the current glamour system is ok because *insert arbitrary reason as to why we have to use glamour plates and have a limited number of glamour slots*, right? You could come up with a lore excuse to explain that after all.

They're free to do whatever they want, we're free to say we don't like something, which is exactly what happened and kudos to them for listening to feedback. That's really all there is to it.

[Joven]

I'm not disputing the fact that they might choose different approaches to introduce new things. What I'm saying is that it's not very believable and it's acceptable only if you consider things like resource limitations and development time. Is it believable that F Hroths are hiding? Maybe it is to you, but to me it really isn't. We see a lot of female fighters in the bozjan resistance, so unless F Hroths are like smol, cute, defenseless puppies and I pray to god they're not, it will be quite weird to suddenly see them when they come out and in that case it wouldn't make much sense that we can later use them with our combat jobs. Am I mad because of it? Absolutely not, as I said I understand that they have to make choices. But please don't give me that lore nonsense as a viable explanation to limiting gamaplay features or questionable design choices. It's not like the current glamour system is ok because *insert arbitrary reason as to why we have to use glamour plates and have a limited number of glamour slots*, right? You could come up with a lore excuse to explain that after all.

They're free to do whatever they want, we're free to say we don't like something, which is exactly what happened and kudos to them for listening to feedback. That's really all there is to it.

Not everything has to have a lore attachment. There is a division between game elements and story elements. Glamours exist in the world thanks to the sylphs, but the glamour dresser/plates are just a game element to use said glamours so the numbers allocated to each are limited to system limitations. Originally we only had the glamour crystals which were lore friendly.

My femgar idea was just something off the top of my head. It could be something like maybe not enough of them have escaped captivity for them to be noticable like the malegar have.

[Iscah]

I'm not disputing the fact that they might choose different approaches to introduce new things. What I'm saying is that it's not very believable and it's acceptable only if you consider things like resource limitations and development time. Is it believable that F Hroths are hiding?

There's lore that exists because the writer had free rein and could write what they thought made sense, and there's lore that exists to excuse decisions made elsewhere.

The lack of female Hrothgar is because somewhere else in the process someone decided they would allocate this expansion's two new player models to different races, so a reason had to be invented – and they've stated it. There are less women than men, and they're treated as precious. Not the sort of person you allow on the battlefield even if they want to fight.

Maybe the details of the lore will shift once they become playable, but for now a reason has been given.

[Lastelli]

There's lore that exists because the writer had free rein and could write what they thought made sense, and there's lore that exists to excuse decisions made elsewhere.

The lack of female Hrothgar is because somewhere else in the process someone decided they would allocate this expansion's two new player models to different races, so a reason had to be invented – and they've stated it. There are less women than men, and they're treated as precious. Not the sort of person you allow on the battlefield even if they want to fight.

Maybe the details of the lore will shift once they become playable, but for now a reason has been given.

Yeah, 100% agree. All I'm saying is, as you nicely put it, that when it comes to the currently missing genders, "lore exists to excuse decisions made elsewhere". The lore is whatever the devs want it to be, so using lore as an explanation for gameplay or design mechanics and systems is an inherently flawed argument.

[Iscah]

Anything that removes choice is bad. Gender locking doesn't even make sense logically.

The thing is, the choice was never between "release two whole races or just release halves".

There were three options for what could be added:
Viera M / Viera F
Hrothgar M / Hrothgar F
Hrothgar M / Viera F

Any one of those outcomes locks some players out of a choice that they want. Implement Viera M/F and the people wanting a beastlike race miss out. Implement Hrothgar M/F and the people wanting Viera miss out. Implement half-half and a large chunk of both sides get something – especially if, as they originally said, they thought it might be the last time they could ever add new character models.

That approach creates the impression of gender-locking, but it's not like they designed the characters and then walled them off. They just never existed.